Lakeshow/CT_WestCoast exposed and refuted
Here was my response to this claim that turned into a round for round:
Dk-man7: Peter didn't raise the dead, Jesus did
Dk-man7: Acts 3"16 And on the basis of faith in Jesus’ name, his very name has made this man – whom you see and know – strong. The faith that is through Jesus has given him this complete health in the presence of you all.
Dk-man7: Acts 4: 7 After making Peter and John stand in their midst, they began to inquire, “By what power or by what name did you do this?”
Dk-man7: 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, replied, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9 if we are being examined today for a good deed done to a sick man – by what means this man was healed –10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, this man stands before you healthy.
Dk-man7: exposed
Dk-man7: ACTS 9: 36 Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which in translation means Dorcas). She was continually doing good deeds and acts of charity. 37 At that time she became sick and died. When they had washed her body, they placed it in an upstairs room. 38 Because Lydda was near Joppa, when the disciples heard that Peter was there, they sent twomen to him and urged him, “Come to us without delay.”
39 So Peter got up and went with them, and when he arrived they brought him to the upper room. All the widows stood beside him, crying and showing him the tunics and other clothing Dorcas used to make while she was with them. 40 But Peter sent them all outside, KNELT DOWN, AND PRAYED. Turning to the body, he said, “Tabitha, GET UP.” Then she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
Dk-man7:
17 After this the son of the woman who owned the house got sick. His illness was so severe he could no longer breathe.
18 She asked Elijah, “Why, prophet, have you come to me to confront me with my sin and kill my son?”
19 He said to her, “Hand me your son.” He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him down on his bed.
20 Then he called out to the LORD, “O LORD, my God, are you also bringing disaster on this widow I am staying with by killing her son?”
21 He stretched out over the boy three times and called out to the LORD, “O LORD, my God, please let this boy’s breath return to him.”
22 The LORD answered Elijah’s prayer; the boy’s breath returned to him and he lived.
Dk-man7: 1 Kings 17
Dk-man7: 2 kings 4: 32 When Elisha arrived at the house, there was the child lying dead on his bed. 33 He went in by himself and closed the door. Then he prayed to the LORD. 34 He got up on the bed and spread his body out over the boy; he put his mouth on the boy’s mouth, his eyes over the boy’s eyes, and the palms of his hands against the boy’s palms. He bent down over him, and the boy’s skin grew warm. 35 Elisha went back and walked around in the house. THEN he got up on the bed again and bent down over him. The child sneezed seven times and opened his eyes.
CT_wESt CoaSt came online at 02:42 PM
Dk-man7: 2 kings 13: 20 Elisha died and was buried. Moabite raiding parties invaded the land at the beginning of the year. 21 One day some men were burying a man when they spotted a raiding party. So they threw the dead man into Elisha’s tomb. When the body touched Elisha’s bones, the dead man came to life and stood on his feet. <<<< his corpse raised the dead, not him
Dk-man7: EXPOSED
Dk-man7: NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE EVER ROSE THE DEAD, U ARE SMOKED, they merely INVOKED the power of THE LORD
Dk-man7: U ARE DONE LIKE A SNAKE WITH TOOTH PASTE
EXPOSING CT
CT_wESt CoaSt: and Notice how jesus passed this Power to Peter
CT_wESt CoaSt: we can go into much more also
CT_wESt CoaSt: oh wait then u would have to admit apostalic succession
Dk-man7: False on all accounts. 1) The "all authority" has been given to me is a statement post-ressurection, so how does Jesus raise the dead before his ressurection if he didn't have the authority apriori? 2) Authority does not mean ABILITY, anyone can give AUTHORITY to do something, but if someone is physically handicap and unable to perform the function, then he still can't, thus Jesus would need the abilities and power, even if he was given the authority
Dk-man7: The prophets also invoked YAHWEH, where as Jesus invoked his own authority
Dk-man7: Jesus did not give this divine authority to "Peter", Jesus never made any of the claims Jesus made, he merely invoked the authority of Jesus
Dk-man7: if Peter's authority is meant to be the same authority as Jesus , then why didn't Peter possess his authority and stop invoking Jesus ?
Dk-man7: All and all, you still haven't shown Peter raised the dead.
Dk-man7: So your argument against Fyreflye is bogus
CT_wESt CoaSt: Not at all , Jesus raised by the fathers authority
CT_wESt CoaSt: Peter raised by the AUTHORITY of the lord which was GIVEN to jesus by the father
CT_wESt CoaSt: it still shhows a succession
Dk-man7: Again false analogy and distortion of the word "GIVEN". If jesus ONLY RECEIVED ALL AUTHORITY after his ressurection, how was he able to GIVE The disciples authority to bind and loose what is in heaven and earth in MATTHEW 16?
Dk-man7: Your distortion of "given" won't work.
Dk-man7: And don't run from the question: If Peter had the same kind of authority as Jesus, why does Peter not appeal to his own divine authority as the Messiah, make divine claims and claim to be the truth, ressurection and life?
Dk-man7: 1) Only God can do miracles 2) Jesus performs miracles 3) Therefore Jesus is God
CT_wESt CoaSt: Peter did a miracle....so he is God...cool
Dk-man7: Now would you like to show where Peter does a miracle through his own divine union as a person in the Godhead?
Dk-man7: Or are you going to keep appealing to passages that expose you
Dk-man7: ?
Dk-man7: You also made a false analogy by comparing Jesus appeal to the Father as an authority vs Peter's appeal to Jesus. Jesus appeals to the Father NOT in the same sense that Peter appeals to the name of the Lord Jesus. Jesus claims all the attributes of divinity and claims he can do nothing of himself but perform whatever the Father does. Where does Peter claim he has these divine attributes, titles and functions and that he together with the father performs the miracles?
Dk-man7: Peter quite clearly invokes the authority of Jesus, but never claims to together perform the same functions as God along side of him, which is exactly what Jesus did.
Dk-man7: Anyway you are toasted
Dk-man7: I suggest giving up this argument
Dk-man7: And let me know if you have any other stupid objections
CT_wESt CoaSt: 40Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?” 41So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me.
CT_wESt CoaSt: 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.” 43When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.
CT_wESt CoaSt: WOW on the father
Dk-man7: 1) 42I knew that you ALWAYS hear me --- In context of John this is because Jesus is the Son of God who is ONE with God and they always work in perfect union<
Dk-man7: but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.” <<<< exposes u
Dk-man7: I SAID THIS ON THE ACCOUNT OF THE PEOPLE
Dk-man7: but this still dodges the question
Dk-man7: Peter quite clearly invokes the authority of Jesus, but never claims to together perform the same functions as God along side of him, which is exactly what Jesus did.
Dk-man7: Jesus appeals to the Father NOT in the same sense that Peter appeals to the name of the Lord Jesus. Jesus claims all the attributes of divinity and claims he can do nothing of himself but perform whatever the Father does. Where does Peter claim he has these divine attributes, titles and functions and that he together with the father performs the miracles?
Dk-man7: Now show where Peter claims to perform all the divine functions that Jesus or the Father performs because of his DIVINE UNION in one essence with either Jesus or God
Dk-man7: exposed
Dk-man7: Show us where Peter says "I don't do these things BY MYSELF, but WITH GOD ALMIGHTY TOGETHER WE DO ALL THESE MIRACLES"
Dk-man7: Which is exactly what Jesus claimed, HE CAN DO EVERYTHING THE FATHER DOES, BECAUSE THEY ARE PART OF A PERFECT DIVINE UNION
Dk-man7: EXPOSED
CT_wESt CoaSt: its obvious divine what PETER is doing and its beacuse Jesus proclaims ttghis to him..what U BIND ON EARTH is bound in heaven
CT_wESt CoaSt: even peter is in UNION with God almighty
Dk-man7: Peter is not in divine union
Dk-man7: yawn
Dk-man7: Anyway that was your last straw, you are busted
Dk-man7: That was a low retort, even u can manage better than that
Dk-man7: so CT, do you admit that God granted Peter the ability to RAISE PEOPLE FROM THE DEAD? You think God gave Peter this ability?
Dk-man7: CT, if that is the case, please explain how Peter was FULLY HUMAN if his human nature possessed one of God's divine attributes of rebirth and creation
Dk-man7: exposed again
CT_wESt CoaSt: Of course God gave peter the abuility like the Father gave Jesus the authority
CT_wESt CoaSt: very simple
CT_wESt CoaSt:
Dk-man7: dam YOU JUST CRUSHED YOURSELF
Dk-man7: you just SAID the Father GAVE BOTH JESUS AND PETER DIVINE ABILITIES
Dk-man7: U ARE SMOKED
Dk-man7: this is going on the blog
Dk-man7: you need to learn from your mistakes
CT_wESt CoaSt: lol SHOW ME where JESUS SAYS I am god
CT_wESt CoaSt:
CT_wESt CoaSt: put that on ur blog tOO
Dk-man7: hopefully CBD banns you for good
CT_wESt CoaSt: i really dont care
CT_wESt CoaSt: tell cbd urself man....u want me banned....who gives a shit lol
Dk-man7: he already banned u
Dk-man7: even before i told him
Dk-man7: he said YOU ARE A MUSILIM
Dk-man7: is that true?
CT_wESt CoaSt: AM UNIVERSALIST
Dk-man7: GBU
For more information on Jesus himself (with the Father) performing miracles proving his divinity see:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_miracles.htm
Surely if Jesus alone can perform the same functions as the Father, this makes him divine.
And remember Prophets, Apostles and servants of God do not perform miracles with God (since they don't have the ability), they merely pray and beseech God who by himself revives dead-men and creates life.
DK AS USUAL YOUR AGRUMENTS HAVE NO BIBLICAL BASES AND YOU OFTEN CONTRADICT THE BIBLE IN ORDER TO TRY GATHERING ITS IRRELEVENT SCATTERED PEICES , AND THATS A PROOF THAT YOUR BIBLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF , SO LETS SEE WHAT YOUR BIBLE SAYS :
ReplyDeleteMatthew 10:1 And he called unto him his twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness.
Matthew 10:7-11 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give
Get you no gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses
no wallet for your journey, neither two coats, nor shoes, nor staff: for the laborer is worthy of his food.
And into whatsoever city or village ye shall enter, search out who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go forth.
Jesus therefore said, 'When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me,'" (John 8:28).
AND FINALLY THE BIBLE IS CLEAR THAT JESUS EVEN COULDNT RAISE HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
NOW DK ALL YOU CAN DO BRINGING UP A VERSE WHICH CONTRADICTS ALL WHAT IT BEEN SAID TO PROVE AGAIN THAT YOUR BIBLE IS CONTRADICTING ITSELF .
DK YOU ARE EXPOSED :)
Citing Matthew 10: 7-11 without it's context is an erroneous approach at best. Jesus commissioned them, meaning, he gave them a directive. He passed on HIS authority. Jesus did not say "You can do this in your own authority". Rule #1 of a disciple is that he or she be UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST. That's why JESUS called the twelve and not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteIf you put Acts 5:30 with Jesus' statement that he would raise up "this temple" in three days (meaning his body) you come flat up against the incarnation of God in Christ.
All this "exposes" is that, whomever wrote this, lacks the understanding of scripture interpreting scripture.
Anonymous, YOU ARE EXPOSED!
find a decent Job DKMAN, instead of babling on paltalk.
ReplyDeleteJohn 11:41-43 41 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”
ReplyDelete43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”
DK YOU ARE EXPOSED , JESUS COULDNT RAISE THE DEAD WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE FATHER , AND JESUS ACCORDING TO THIS VERSE DIDNT HAVE ALL THE AUTHORITY , OTHERWISE HE WOULDNT ASK THE FATHER TO RAISE LAZARUS .
DK YOU ARE EXPOSED AGAIN :)
These Christians of AnsweringMuslims are making a fool of themselves and completely ridiculing our faith.
ReplyDeleteI view the Bible as human words describing real experiences of people with God but not as inerrant as do all the folks you are rightly criticizing here.
Lovely greetings from France and Germany.
Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son
http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com