A Blank God And It's Blank Servant: IT and Itaz

Muslim Dawahgandist Ijaz Ahmad is such a nice fellow isn't he? Never initiating insults, never attacking any of his opponents. Only retaliating when provoked by Sam Shamoun who attacks him!

If only...

Lets be serious now.

Itaz The Fallacious Ahmad has once again been caught initiating insults (2:13:16), this time to the very polite, cordial, respectful Samuel Green, the Church Fathers, his Christian audience, and all who believe in the Trinity!

Rewind a little, this all begins at 2:09:00 seconds, where my friend General Han Solo questions Ijaz Ahmad, then follow up and listen to his answer carefully:


Ijaz not only insults all Christians but also misrepresents the now deceased Church Fathers like Athanasius, Tertullian, and reformers like Calvin. After he misrepresents them and quotes Athanasius out of context, he proceeds to attack a strawman of his view, in which he criticizes him (and others) by using modern standards of apologia, rather than the very local ancient standards they were familiar with. Very easy to do when a deceased person cannot respond isn't it, Ijaz? Rather distasteful of Ijaz, I don't mind saying myself. I will let others handle the blatant misrepresentation (or perhaps it's rather to obvious to rebut).

What is most disturbing about of all of this? This is the exact same issue Ijaz has with Dr. James White:


If that wasn't clear enough try this one a few posts down:

These screenshots must contain more of the "Tabloid Journalism" mentioned by ITAZ
To take a few words, from the all to familiar vocab of Dr. James White's, which may come into play here: inconsistent, double standards, much?

But this isn't the first time Ijaz has been quite embarrassed, he has a history, in fact Ijaz likes to debate opponents who he thinks are the easiest, weakest and even most self defeating Christians! He does this in order to promote himself unbelievably as Paul Williams says as "one of Islam's best apologists". I advice Dr. White to examine his attitude with Christian missionary Bob Siegal

God is knowable, yet Allah is an unknowable indefinable blank.


Despite all the insults, and misrepresentation given from Ijaz (which I hope Dr. White considers before debating him), I would like to repeat a question asked by Ijaz, in what was meant to be his "answer" to Han Solo:
"How can you call me to worship a God, who is unknown, and you can't tell me his nature?" (2:13:30)
The most substantial problem for Ijaz at this point is that Ijaz has mistakenly rendered himself a Christian. Yet Ijaz is actually a Muslim who has conveniently forgotten some crucial facts:
  1. Christians know who God is
  2. The only thing Muslims know, is that Allah is an unknowable god
Lets focus on (1) to begin with. 

What evidence do we have that Christians know God? 

Let's evaluate God's nature and his persons:
The woman said to him, "Sir, I see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you people say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem." Jesus said to her, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You people worship what you DO NOT KNOW We worship what WE KNOW, because salvation is from the Jews. But a time is coming– and now is here– when the true worshipers will worship THE FATHER in spirit and truth, for THE FATHER seeks such people to be his worshipers. GOD IS SPIRIT, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:19-24
Paul can even declare who God is to the gentiles, since the Christians know who the one true living God is:
So they took Paul and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are proclaiming? For you are bringing some surprising things to our ears, so we want to know what they mean." (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there used to spend their time in nothing else than telling or listening to something new.) So Paul stood before the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I see that you are very religious in all respects. For as I went around and observed closely your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: 'To an unknown god.' Therefore what you worship without knowing it, THIS I PROCLAIM TO YOU. Acts 17:19-23 
What else do we know about God's essential nature?
Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5 
The person who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:8
Now an intermediary is not for one party alone, but God is one. Galatians 3:20
 Ultimately it is Jesus Christ himself who reveals God the Father's nature:
All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him. Matthew 11:27
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation Colassions 1:15
The only way of course Jesus was able to reveal us, God's exact nature, is because Jesus himself, shares this exact nature:
The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. Hebrews 1:3 
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known. John 1:18
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20
According to Christianity

Who is God?:

  • God is Personal
  • God is Father
  • God is Son
  • God is Holy Spirit

What is God?

  • God has Nature
  • God is One
  • God is Light
  • God is Love
  • God is Spirit

Christianity then gives us a revelation explaining facts about God's essential nature, characteristics and persons.

But how does Islam fair in this regard?

Lets move on to (2) The only thing Muslims know, is that Allah is an unknowable god

Islam does attempt to usurp one essential attribute of God from Christianity, claiming  "God is light", however because Islam fails to comprehend enlightened theology, it asserts so inadequately as we shall see. Light, truth and guidance are not viewed as part of Allah's essential nature. Rather the statement "God is light", "God is Truth", "God is guidance", "God has guided me", are said to be a prescriptive action God has taken, revealed as God's characteristic, but God's attributes in Islam are merely a description showing what kind of actions God has performed.

Is Allah knowable or unknowable?


Allah not only doesn't possess any real attributes or even a nature, Allah is not even personal or a person:


Perhaps Ijaz "Fallacy" Ahmad needs a more closer colleague to help him out with this:



As Yahya points out, Allah is therefore not a "he" but an impersonal, rather blank:"IT"

Or perhaps Ijaz, agrees with Muslim Blogger: Jesus, who thinks just because Allah is impersonal, that doesn't mean it's a blob, but impersonal things can be more complex like a car or a computer:



For more on Allah's lack of personality and substance visit Anthony Rogers fascinating re-education center, made available here. I'm sure this will be extremely helpful for non-Muslim/Muslim, (can't figure him out) Paul Williams and newly made Christian Apologist (who knows God), Ijaz Ahmad and Yahya who knows IT

Perhaps even a simple Google or Wikipedia check, would of helped Ijaz:
Occasionalism The doctrine first reached prominence in the Islamic theological schools of Iraq, especially in Basra. The ninth century theologian Abu al-Hasan al-Ash’ari argued that there is no Secondary Causation in the created order. The world is sustained and governed through direct intervention of a divine primary causation. As such the world is in a constant state of recreation by God. The most famous proponent of the Asharite occasionalist doctrine was Abu Hamid Muhammad ibn Muhammad al-Ghazali, an 11th-century theologian based in Baghdad. In The Incoherence of the Philosophers, Al-Ghazali launched a philosophical critique against Neoplatonic-influenced early Islamic philosophers such as Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina. In response to the philosophers’ claim that the created order is governed by secondary efficient causes (God being, as it were, the Primary and Final Cause in an ontological and logical sense), Ghazali argues that what we observe as regularity in nature based presumably upon some natural law is actually a kind of constant and continual regularity. There is no independent necessitation of change and becoming, other than what God has ordained . To posit an independent causality outside of God’s knowledge and action is to deprive Him of true agency, and diminish his attribute of power. In his famous example, when fire and cotton are placed in contact, the cotton is burned not because of the heat of the fire, but through God’s direct intervention, a claim which he defended using logic. In the 12th century, this theory was defended and further strengthened by the Islamic theologian Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, using his expertise in the natural sciences of astronomy, cosmology and physics. 
Because God is usually seen as rational, rather than arbitrary, his behaviour in normally causing events in the same sequence (i.e., what appears to us to be efficient causation) can be understood as a natural outworking of that principle of reason, which a we then describe as the laws of nature . Properly speaking, however, these are not laws of nature but laws by which God chooses to govern his own behaviour (his autonomy, in the strict sense) — in other words, his rational will. This is not, however, an essential element of an occasionalist account, and occasionalism can include positions where God’s behaviour (and thus that of the world) is viewed as ultimately inscrutable , thus maintaining God’s essential transcendence . On this understanding, apparent anomalies such as miracles are not really such: they are simply God behaving in a way that appears unusual TO US . Given his transcendent freedom, he is not bound even by his own nature. Miracles, as breaks in the rational structure of the universe, can occur, since God’s relationship with the world is not mediated by rational principles. ” (Source: Wiki)
To further aid Ijaz in spreading the icing on the cake, he should know that Sunni Islam has two schools of Aqida (creed/doctrine), the Ashari and the Maturidi. In case Ijaz, still didn't get the memo, the Aqida of Imam Abu Jafar al-Tahawi (239-321), who represents both of these creeds, hence representing Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama`a, exclaims:
2. There is nothing LIKE Him. 
8. No imagination can conceive of Him and no understanding can comprehend Him
9. He is different from any created being. 
“38. He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.” 
45. The exact nature of the decree is Allah's secret in His creation, and no angel near the Throne, nor Prophet sent with a message, has been given knowledge of it. Delving into it and reflecting too much about it only leads to destruction and loss, and results in rebelliousness. So be extremely careful about thinking and reflecting on this matter or letting doubts about it assail you, because Allah has kept knowledge of the decree away from human beings, and forbidden them to enquire about it, saying in His Book, "He is not asked about what He does, but they are asked" (al-Anbiya' 21: 23). 
Therefore, anyone who asks: "Why did Allah do that?" has gone against a judgement of the Book, and anyone who goes against a judgement of the Book is an unbeliever. 
46. This in sum is what those of Allah's Friends with enlightened hearts need to know and constitutes the degree of those firmly endowed with knowledge. For there are two kinds of knowledge: knowledge which is accessible to created beings, and knowledge which is not accessible to created beings. Denying the knowledge which is accessible is disbelief, and claiming the knowledge which is inaccessible is disbelief. Belief can only be firm when accessible knowledge is accepted and the inaccessible is not sought after. 
“51. He encompasses all things and that which is above it, and what He has created is incapable of encompassing Him.”  
75. When our knowledge about something is unclear, we say: "Allah knows best." (source)
Oh you read that?

I was just putting the sprinkles on the icing.

Back to you.

Fellow Muslim colleague and MDI speaker Abdullah Andualsi defines God negatively, in terms of what God is not, and candidly admits his God possesses no nature, or attributes, components that he is fundamentally absolutely unique and indivisible, being of pure will, check out his introductory remarks and rebuttal sections:


Notice Andualsi distinguishes between descriptions and prescriptions of God. He speaks of the characteristics/traits/attributes being revealed to us as merely actions describing his relationship with humans, but not having an actual con-substantial existence within God's nature, because there is no "within" to speak of, God is indivisible. For Andalusi God has nothing within him that is made up of distinct attributes, rather God's attributes are merely descriptions of God's behavioral actions.  Andalusi even goes on to say: "God doesn't have a substance, he doesn't have a being, he just has a will and infinite power" (111:58).

What are the consequences to such beliefs to such an utterly irrational belief asserting God has a complete absence of any nature and attributes? I will just provide a few of many dilemmas. Not only is the Muslim God an utterly indefinable unknowable thing that has no substance, being or nature, one that cannot even reveal himself to us,  but If God has no positive attributions, he then has no identity, if God transcends or is beyond the Law of Identity: "A = A", God cannot positively be God. But if God cannot be defined in distinction to other phenomena, God cannot exist as distinct from anything else. As one atheist puts it, this is fundamentally the same as pantheism or non-existence:
"If a supernatural being is to be exempt from natural law, it cannot possess specific, determinate characteristics. These attributes would impose limits and these limits would restrict the capacities of this supernatural being....A supernatural being, if it is to differ in kind from natural existence, must exist without a limited nature--which amounts to existing without any nature at all." Atheism: The Case Against God, written by George H. Smith (page 41)
This argument cannot be applied to the Christian God of course, because our God has intrinsic boundaries conjoint to his very nature. However this is a perfect description of a God like Allah who has no limitation. Either Allah simply doesn't exist, or he cannot be distinguished from creation! I advice Ijaz not just to be Christian in theory then (by borrowing from the Christian world-view of a personal knowable God), I would recommend he make the full step and be Christian in identity not merely in thought! 

Just for giggles, another MDI speaker and colleague of Mr Ahmad, Australian MDI debater: Abdullah Kundi (who has debated Dr. White) has also given us another consequence of claiming God has limits or boundaries.

Kunde claimed that the sacrifice of Christ limits God’s power:
“All-powerful. Well, if I can just ask the Christians here in the room to give me a quick show of hands. Who thinks through the sacrifice of Jesus you’re guaranteed entry into heaven? Ok, so are you going to stand before God on the Day of Judgment and say, ‘You now need to let me into heaven because I believed in something?’ So God’s going to be forced to let you into heaven? So you have a God that is not all-powerful because you as a human being are now forcing him to do something.” (source)
Kundi has also been recorded in the debate as saying:
“We also need to accept that it implies a limited God, a God that cannot hold the attributes of eternalness, being all-powerful, and also a unified God. Why? When we say that God is one in opposition to the Trinity, we don’t mean one in terms of the numerical one, that zero can come before it and two can come after it. We mean it in an absolute unity that is not describable in mathematical terms. And when we consider the Trinity, that actually applies a created aspect to God. You’re saying three; the number three in that two comes before it and four comes after it. There’s no way around this, it’s not a complex number. For those of you doing mathematics or science you’ll know it’s even been in the real number system, three. So you’re applying a created aspect to God, and there can absolutely be no such divine unity in that concept. Even if somebody came to you and said that God is one in the sense of the number one, that zero can come before it and two can come after it, that in itself is not even a proper unity, in terms of a godly unity. It’s very important to understand that point.” (Saviour of the World: Jesus or the Quran?)
If Mr Kundi (and hence Islam) is correct, and God has no limitations, God is all powerful in the sense that he has no binding nature, his oneness is of an absolute indivisibility that contains no distinctions within himself including morality, rationality etc. We have serious consequences. If Allah creates the rules by which behavior must be judged and if the rules do not bind their Creator, then there is nothing that is improper for Allah, Allah is not bound, and he itself, is the Judge, who cannot be judged. 

When Allah promises that obedient Muslims will eventually go to heaven and infidels will go to hell, there is no reason to believe that he will not break his promise and send Muslims to hell and infidels to heaven. In fact, it is just as likely that he will break his promise as it is that he will not, there is know way of knowing or predicting what Allah will do since he is not bound to anything, even his own word, Muslims can only read his word and hope he will fulfill it, knowing he has no obligation or moral inclination to do such. What possible grounds could the Muslim have for maintaining that God will keep the promise in question? Allah’s love for Muslims? But we could not call him unloving if he sent Muslims to hell, for this would be to judge Allah. Could we say that God will keep his promise because he is honorable? But again, honorable is just a description of some of his previous actions, nothing inherent in Allah is honorable. If Allah broke his promises we could not judge him to be dishonorable, for that too would be a judgment. Muslims in order to retain there perverse understanding of Allah's almighty power then have reduced his morality to that of arbitrary unbound recklessness. Ultimately we have no way of knowing what Allah will do, and whatever he does Muslims cannot condemn..

According to Islam

Who is God?

  • IT is impersonal
  • IT is no one
  • IT does not think
  • IT does not emote 
  • IT is not aware
  • IT wills stuff (contradiction to the above) 

What is God?
  • Nature-less
  • Unknowable
  • Blank
  • Indefinable
  • Unpredictable
  • God is defined by what he/it is not: "without limit" aka nothing, without positive definition.

The question I have for Ijaz then, is:

"How can you call me to worship a God, who is unknown, and you can't tell me his nature?"

Here is my upgraded version:

"How can an impersonal, utterly natureless God be truly known? Allah is blank. Islam is incoherent. Come to the only God who is living and can be known in his Son by his personal Holy Spirit" ~ Mark Bennett 

Before, I leave, I would like to give a parting gift to our new Christian brother Ijaz from a fellow Christian Apologist of ours.

Earlier we saw Muslims do not believe Allah is contained within our three dimensional realm, as Sunni Islam puts it "he is not contained by the six directions as all created things are". Yet this completely vindicates exactly what the Church Fathers had spoken of in times past (The one(s) that Ijaz had butchered). 

A brilliant Christian thinker and apologist General Han Solo, shows us how Tertullian's point of view has now been vindicated by contemporaneous philosophy and science:


To Be Or Not To Be? ~ A Controversial Homosexual Muslim Exposed

Paul Williams who is renowned for creating online drama: came out of the closet to admit a top Islamic scholar vindicated David Wood & Sam Shamouncandidly professed his Muslim homosexual status, took his blog into private mode over and over after making dramatic announcements. lelft Islam after providing ridiculously unconvincing shallow reasoning, is now guess what?

Reverting back to Islam:


Truly, this is a moment to celebrate!


The man certainly has a talent for creating a massive blog following through these types of dramatic antics. Certainly this is working quite well to his advantage.

However, the problem for those of you  who don't know is that Islam contains a doctrine known as Al Taqiya.

Paul says one thing in public, but conceals the truth to his public blogosphere. However as I was scrolling through my Facebook home page feed, I noticed a rather candid admission made in a slightly more private medium:


That's right folks. Paul Williams is only a friend of Islam, he is not a Muslim! As you can see this is only 9 hours after he links to his own post claiming he reverted back to Islam and has become Muslim again!

This must be more of my so-called tabloid journalism that Paul Williams and Ijaz Ahmad speak of! Except this time I was able to upload the image, before these Taqiyists took it down.

I think this borderline schizophrenic has had enough attention for one year, don't you?

Ultimately it doesn't matter if Paul Williams has been proven a proactive homosexual, as long as he attacks Christianity (and continues to do so in his rather inconsistent apostasy), Muslims will love to support a gay man that even their own Prophet condemned.

Bon Voyage Paul Williams and company. That is the end of this liar on this blog.

UPDATE


A Muslim (replying to Radical Moderate) has vindicated Paul Williams:



Mr (a)intellect

I highly recommend a software upgrade but applied to your mind operating software, since you need a reading comprehension scan, don't you know how to read English?

"Then God will say, so you did not use your intellect" ~ (a)Intellect

How Jesus Became VIRGIN BORN: Erhman's Historical Jesus & Methodology Rejected By The Quran

Is the false apocalyptic Messiah of Erhman, the Messiah of the Quran? Turns out, ermm, maybe not. 

And what about his infancy?

Denis Giron elaborates on this post:


 My thoughts?


As Royalson quoting co-blogger Jose Joesph who says:

How Jesus Became MESSIAH - Islamic Issa Examined in light of Bart Erhman & Consistent Standards

From what I understood of the recent Muslim pandemic and vicious advertising of Bart Erhman's new book, the Quranic Issa is most certainly identical with the historical Jesus spoken of by Erhman. My purpose then is only to evaluate if Bart Erhman's Jesus is the Quranic Issa. 

However after reading some excerpts of his book: "How Jesus Became God" provided by pro-Muslim fundamentalist Paul Williams I became unconvinced of the assertion that Issa is closest to the historical Jesus. It turns out Issa is not the historical Jesus of Bart Erhman, rather Erhman's Jesus is the false prophet and Messiah rejected by rabbinical Judaism which in turn is advertised and glorified by Muslim Apologists!  

This is truly ironic that the Muslims are giving us evidence that the enemies of Jesus were right all along, as opposed to the Quran (3:54-55) which explicitly condemns the Jewish opponents of Christ who conceived of him as a complete blasphemer and impostor. 

According to Bart Erhman, Jesus did not proclaim in public that he was the Messiah:
"But in fact he did nothing to make a person think that he was the messiah."
And:
"The first is to reaffirm that we have no record of Jesus ever proclaiming himself to be the future king of the Jews, the messiah, in a public context."
And:
"His message is about the coming kingdom to be brought by the Son of Man. He always keeps himself out of it."
In other words, there is no direct evidence Jesus ever said the words: "I am the Messiah"

But it gets worse. According to Erhman, Jesus may have given the public every reason to think he was not the Messiah:
"He may well have been a pacifist (“love your enemy,” “turn the other cheek,” “blessed are the peacemakers,” etc.), which would not exactly make him a leading candidate to be general over the Jewish armed forces. He did not preach the violent overthrow of the Roman armies. And he talked about someone else, rather than himself, as the coming Son of Man." 
So where does the idea that Jesus is the Messiah come from? Erhman explains:
"So if nothing in what Jesus was actively doing would make anyone suspect that he had messianic pretensions, why would his followers almost certainly have been thinking about him and calling him the messiah during his public ministry? The easiest explanation is that Jesus told them that he was the messiah."
Erhman's primary evidence then is that Jesus followers thought of him as the Messiah, and therefore Jesus most likely told them this in private. Erhman is probably correct in believing the easiest explanation is that Jesus told them.

However why would a historian cling to an easy explanation? It's certainly possible Jesus may have merely received all due honors as a King/Messiah, but simply never advocated the idea himself. A contemporary example might do us justice, such as Menachem Mendel Schneerson. While the easiest explanation might be the Rebbe told many of his followers in private he was the Messiah, the fact of the matter is there is no evidence he ever explicitly denied or affirmed he was the Messiah, yet he allowed his followers to believe such near the end of his life. 

Erhman goes on to explain how he thinks Jesus conceived of himself as the King/Messiah, which actually seems to vindicate the rabbinical Jews, that Jesus was to be rejected as the King of Israel, The Messiah:
"But what he meant by “messiah” has to be understood within the broader context of his apocalyptic proclamation."
And:
"Jesus must have thought that he would be the king of the kingdom of God soon to be brought by the Son of Man. And what is the typical designation for the future king of Israel? Messiah. It is in this sense that Jesus must have taught his disciples that he was the messiah."

Erhman is therefore an advocate of the Rabbinical Jewish position, that Jesus was a failed apocalyptic Messiah, who thought he was going to rule a soon coming divine kingdom on earth ushered in by the heavenly angelic figure the Son of Man:
"I have already argued that he did not consider himself to be the Son of Man, and so he did not consider himself to be the heavenly angelic being who would be the judge of the earth."
The Son of Man while being distinct from Jesus himself in Erhman's view, yet cannot be Mohammed but a divine figure who ushers in God's kingdom in the life-time of Jesus and his disciples themselves.

Further, Keith Thompson presents an excellent case refuting the the untenable assertion that Jesus is not the Son of Man in the Gospel.

But this has serious implications on Erhman's view that Jesus is not divine in the Synoptic Gospel accounts. Since if Jesus is identified as the Son of Man, he is explicitly made divine in the Synoptic Gospels themselves! Erhman's entire case then, is left upon the flimsy notion that Son of Man is a distinct figure from Jesus, yet this idea is utterly indefensible in scholarly exegesis.

Erhman predictably contradicts Islam and asserts:

WHAT!! No way! Jesus was Crucified!!??
"Evidence that Jesus really did think that he was the king of the Jews is the very FACT that he was killed for it...And so Pilate ordered Jesus crucified on the spot. According to our records, which are completely believable at this point, the soldiers roughed him up, mocked him, flogged him, and then led him off to be crucified. Evidently, two similar cases were decided that morning. Maybe a couple more the day after that and the day after that. In this instance, they took Jesus and the two others to a public place of execution and fixed them all to crosses. According to our earliest account, Jesus was dead in six hours."
So how exactly did Jesus become the Messiah? 

The evidence that Erhman uses for his assertion that Jesus thought of himself as the Messiah is: 
  1. The Disciples (which Muslims reject) and 
  2. Several hypothesizes of Jesus death (which Muslims reject)
From the Islamic perspective the evidence can therefore be discounted, why? For Muslims they do not believe the disciples of Jesus preserved his words, therefore we do not have the words of Jesus. What we have is the disciples interpretation of his words. We then have no self proclamation from Jesus regarding his Kingship as a Messiah. We have no direct statement from Jesus claiming to be the Messiah to his disciples or in his public ministry, we have every reason to believe Jesus claimed not to be the Messiah. Most Muslims require to hear these words from the lips of Jesus verbatim regarding his divinity, so to be consistent then we must demand the same from the historical Jesus proclaiming his Kingship, yet we have no such quotation. The explanations regarding Jesus trial and crucifixion must also be rejected from the Islamic perspective, as the Quran provides no coherent or consistent explanation on the final events of Jesus ministry.

However, the problem with relying on the disciples to interpret Jesus words to mean he is the Messiah, is that these very same disciples who claim that Jesus is the Messiah are the same disciples who according to Erhman claim that Jesus is divine. This would mean one would need to argue the disciples are reliable interpreters of Jesus own words during his earthly ministry, yet unreliable interpreters of Jesus after his death, proving themselves incapable of preserving his message after his death. This problem hits home immediately for a Muslim since it explicitly contradicts the Quran which speaks of Jesus disciples:
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will MAKE those who follow THEE SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, TO THE DAY OF RESSURECTION: Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute." 3:55 (For an analysis see here)
In order to believe Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, we have to trust the disciples had the correct understanding of Jesus. Yet if we trust the disciples understanding, we must also accept their claim that he was divine in some sense!

But it gets worse, because according to Erhman, while no one except the disciples knew about Jesus conception of himself as the Messiah and his prosecutors, the Quran thinks of the enemies of Jesus as having this conception of Jesus aswell!
And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. 4:157
How could the very enemies who opposed Jesus view him as the Messiah and God's messenger? Not only wasn't this public knowledge, it was not even believed by most of the followers of Jesus, who had no idea Jesus held such beliefs! How utterly anachronistic and irrational of the Quran.

In summary it seems Bart Erhman's case rests on a odd peculiar notion that we should trust Jesus very own inner-circle of disciples to accurately understand, present and interpret Jesus own conception of himself as Messiah in his presence during his life, yet after his death, we ought to dismiss the very same inner-group who believed Jesus is God and divine in some sense to be inaccurately reflecting Jesus conception of himself. I don't however believe Erhman in his own personal view has implied the disciples are theologically incorrect, rather only that Jesus may not have possessed a unique divine conception, that is identical to the disciples post-Jesus. 

The most profound establishment I mentioned here, is that Bart Erhman conceives of Jesus most closet disciples believing of him as divine at all!! In any sense! This of course is a radical change of Erhman's previous view, a redaction that directly contradicts Islam which asserts only two categories of believers existed the believers and disbelievers, enemies and followers. The followers of course were not granted disunity and division, but rather preservation and dominance until the judgement day! 

I had a discussion with Muslim Apologist Nazam on this, as you can see Nazam conveniently ignored the implications:





I believe my friend and a fantastic Christian thinker, Denis Giron summarizes the situation the best:


Paul Williams lost his MarBalls, perhaps Bart Erhman found them

It turns out, Paul Williams who use to be the director of Muslim Debate Initiative has announced MDI (among all of PW's close friends) were well aware of his homosexual status.

Paul however informs us (on the same page):


While Paul incorrectly accuses me of posting pictures from his Facebook (one of the pictures is from his blog, and another from Paul Martin's FB page), I did however link to multiple comments and pictures directly of his on his public Facebook which he later withdrew from public access. In other words his Facebook was set to public settings, so that all could behold his boastful ties to his homosexuality. What these pictures and comments constituted was what Paul would label: "a public act of homosexuality", some of these pictures and comments are still available.

The fact of the matter is that Paul Williams has been involved with Paul Martin for quite sometime, recently they had even been travelling together, staying at the same hotels, going to the same mosque, drinking alcohol on multiple occasions, they are a well known exclusive couple on there Facebook page and refer to one another as: "my bunny, stunning, hot" etc. What this means is we have public evidence that Paul & Paul for along while have been involved in a homosexual relationship and even declared this in pubic. What resulted from this? Paul Williams was forced to retreat his Facebook page back into the land of the anonymous. Yet Paul condemned this type of cowardice on Yahya Snow's blog when he was provoked:


Amen! Let us pray PW comes out of the closet and restores his Facebook to it's original state, so all can see Paul's relationship with Paul. Paul wants us to think he has been an inactive homosexual for quite sometime, therefore it's time to come out the closet Paul.

To top this off, contrary to Paul's statement, multiple associates of mine (if need be) can confirm I emailed Paul and offered to take down my post, as I copied and pasted the email to them before I sent it and still have the e-mail in my sent folder.

Despite all this, Paul maintains he did not leave Islam because of his homosexuality:


Paul Williams believes homosexuality, heterosexuality and Islam are compatible as-long as these homosexual acts are done in the privacy of your own home or space. Yahya Snow agrees with Paul:
"James, Paul doesn't need to phone a world-renowned scholar to ask about what Islam teaches about homosexuality - he knows. He's not stupid."
As a Muslim (and even since), Paul has repeatedly asserted he will not debate fundamentalists, in which he includes Dr. James White:


The irony is that while Paul may not debate fundamentalists, yet he will certainly join the religion of fundamentalists who kill apostates and homosexuals upon leaving the religion of fundamentalism, especially when naughty public acts of homosexuality have been displayed.

However contrary to Paul Williams, it turns out (and not for the first time), just like Sam Shamoun and David Wood were vindicated by Islamic Scholarship, James White has been vindicated by historical and biblical scholarship.

Indeed Bart Erhman, a leading Bible Scholar himself has significantly changed his view and is now confessing the earliest family members and disciples of Jesus thought of him as bearing a divine status. Erhman no longer takes the view that Jesus divinity was established between 90-96 C.E.

Lets hope that Paul Williams doesn't cling to primitive fundamentalist Islamic notions and chooses to take a ride on the Biblical scholarship train that he himself advertises and approves of on his own blog.

In summary: It just keeps getting worse for Williams, first he lost his religion, then he was caught in a homosexual relationship, then two fundamentalists David Wood and Sam Shamoun were vindicated by Islamic Scholarship, and now James White is vindicated by Bart Erhman!

Here are some closing comments for Paul Williams:


I couldn't agree more Paul!

How ironic!

By coincidence, Bart Erhman has become one of the leading opponents of Islamic Theology. Here's his view in a nutshell:
  1. Jesus was crucified
  2. Jesus family and followers saw his post-mortem appearances
  3. Jesus family and earliest disciples viewed him as divine (before Paul and John)
Paul do you believe Jesus was crucified? 
Do you believe Jesus followers envisioned him after his death?
Do you believe Jesus family and disciples conceived of Jesus in a divine sense?
Or are you a flaming fundamentalist, Paul Williams?


UPDATE


I would like to thank Paul Williams who posts an interview which took place with Bart Erhman:



Just in case Paul Williams missed what Erhman said:
9:21-10 "But then, some of them [disciples] came to think that Jesus had been raised from the dead, and that was the beginning of the idea that Jesus himself was divine the logic was that, these disciples had visions of Jesus, they, they saw him afterwards, and they concluded that he was no longer dead, but he obviously wasn't with them anymore, he was no where to be seen, so where is he? He'd been taken up into heaven, and so the disciples came to think that he had been divinized, he'd been one of these people who was taken up and made divine. And at that point then, as soon as the disciples came to believe in the Resurrection, they came to think Jesus in some sense was God."
This is theologically devastating news for Islam. Allah who raised Jesus to himself, to save Jesus from death, accidentally ended up causing a group of Jesus disciples to believe Jesus was divinized and in some sense the same as God! In other words, Allah didn't just trick the enemies of Jesus, by virtue of deceiving the enemies of Jesus, Allah also tricked the very disciples of Jesus, who thought Jesus was divine because of his death, Resurrection and ascension! Allah then causes this false ideology to succeed for 600 years as divine truth and then decides to correct his initial error.

Paul Williams for the love of Allah, abandon your fundamentalist beliefs and follow where the evidence directs us!

UPDATE: Muslim Objections


Some Muslims, including my friend Nazam and Yahya (along with PW), are claiming to very offended, that such news is worthy of reporting:



Will the real "Injeel" please stand up? by Mark Bennett

Edited By Sam Shamoun

Before reading this, for a fairly simple introduction and basic outline to this subject I recommend Anthony Rogers latest post

(Written in March 2013, bear in mind I copied this directly from MS Word, so the format is not perfect when entered into blogger)

Bassam Zawadi has recently written a “response” here to Dr. James White’s critique (found here) of Zawadi’s inadequate explanation of Quran, Chapter 5:47 which says:

Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. 5:47 Y. Ali

I recommend reading Dr White and Zawadi’s posts to understand the full context of this discussion.

Rather than addressing Zawadi point by point, I will try and summarize his position and address the main points.

First lets discuss methodology. Zawadi in his article says:

I am not equivocating as I have just said, rather what I ask people to do is to read the entirety of Islamic scriptural references on this given topic and ALLOW THEM to communicate the stance Islam has taken on this matter in it's PROPER CONTEXT.

Firstly it is quite apparent that Zawadi needs a lesson in the Islamic science of Tafseer:       

The Qur'ân explained by the Qur'ân: The interpretation of the Qur'ân by the Qur'ân is the highest source of tafsîr. Many of the questions which may arise out of a certain passage of the Qur'ân have their explanation in other parts of the very same book, and often there is no need to turn to any sources other than the word of Allah, which in itself contains tafsîr. To seek to explain an aya from the Qur'ân by referring to another ayâ from the Qur'ân is the first and foremost duty of the mufassir. Only if this does not suffice, he will refer to other sources of tafsîr. (source)

Zawadi had to appeal to sources outside the Quran, because his view is not in the Quran. But what about the passages he refers to in the Quran, does any passage instruct the people of the Gospel to judge the Gospel by the Quran? Absolutely not (see below on 5:47). And since there are no other passages giving a different tafseer of the Quran by the Quran we must give the Quran precedence here and reject any possible tafseer that would contradict the direct word of God. This means then, that Dr. James White original exegesis still stands:

“The essence of Bassam's interpretation of Surah 5:47 is that the text, though it specifically says وَلْيَحْكُمْ أَهْلُ الْإِنجِيلِ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ, that is, judge by what Allah has revealed therein, where the ONLY possible antecedent in Arabic is the Gospel, actually means not to judge by the Gospel, but by the Qur'an!”

Next, why are non-believers in Islam obligated to allow all of the Islamic sources to be harmonized or consistent, does Zawadi provide Christians the same courteousy and charity? Does Zawadi expect infidels to start off with Islamic presuppositions, that Islam must be true and infallible? Or does he expect us to at least be neutral and start off as objective as possible, like a historian and honest exegete. We are not Muslim Quranic commentators we do not need to reconcile the mess of Islamic history that Sunni Muslims self admittedly agree is a shambles until a few saviors like Imam Bukhari and Muslim came along.

Secondly it is rather obvious Zawadi merely begs the question since he assumes Dr. White is not allowing the proper context yet has not demonstrated Dr. White’s unfamiliarity with Zawadi’s hadith citations, in other words Dr. White’s lack of background knowledge is not established by Zawadi. Maybe Dr. White is familiar with the citations provided by Zawadi, but he does not presuppose these citations mean the author of the Quran rejected the gospels. Maybe he does not reason like Zawadi because he has no obligation to provide ad hoc explanations and primitive reinterpretations of such transparent verses and hadith like Zawadi and his sources?

Having said this, I don’t believe the majority of Islamic sources are contradictory on the matter of the previous Scripture. The vast majority of the sources including the Quran and so-called authentic hadith attest to the incorrupability and textual veracity and tenacity of the Torah and Injeel. It is thus Zawadi who does not allow the proper context to speak for itself, this isn’t the first time Zawadi since he tries to interpret the entire Quran in alignment with a few passages he believes are referring to textual corruption (2:79;4:157) proof of this is evident in his article here. As an example the following verse says:

When it is said to them, "Believe in what God Hath sent down," they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us:" yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: "Why then have ye slain the prophets of God in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?" 2:91

Zawadi explains this as follows:

“The Qur'an claims to be a confirmation, protector and touchstone of the Truth contained in the Torah and Gospel. (Az-Zamakhshari, op. cit., vol.2, p.575, cited here)

However, he wanted to clarify what is meant by the Quran's confirmation and that is that it confirms the truth in the Torah and Gospel, which indicates that the Torah and Gospel contain falsehood. Thus, az-Zamakhshari makes it clear that he believes that the Torah and Gospels were textually distorted.

…Thus, Christian missionaries who like to misinterpret what the verses are actually saying would need to do better and provide objective evidence that the verses they are posing do intend to communicate what they claim it is. If they cannot, then we must harmonize these verses with the Islamic teachings that make it clear that the previous scriptures have been textually corrupted.”

It is very clear then Zawadi is anything but objective, a scholarly approach is absent in his reasoning, a scholar does not proceed with: “If we don’t know the meaning of the verse since the Christians cannot substantiate their meaning, we must reconcile all verses like these with with Islamic teachings”.

If the true meaning of the verse was unknown, it would be, well, unknown, end of story. If Christians could not substantiate the meaning, that does not imply the meaning must be readjusted to be consistent with Islam. This would not be an excuse to force a harmonization and reinterpretion the verse. Yet the true meaning of passages like these is not unknown as he would wish his readers to think. In fact the argument of the verse is transparent:

  • People of the Book are to believe in what God has sent down
  • People of the Book claim to believe what God has sent down to them
  • God asserts they don’t believe in all revelation God has sent down since the Quran is the most recent revelation sent down
  • God asserts the most recent revelation sent down is verifying what God has previously sent down
  • Together all of these revelations God has sent down confirm one another

... Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father's brother, who during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the Arabic writing and used to write of the GOSPELS in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111)

The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the GOSPELS in Arabic... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605)


Note all of these statements presuppose the Book possessed by the people of the Book is what God has sent down in total, and the line of thought would be absent and empty without this, so I wish to save the Quran from a non-sequitor imposed on it by an ad hoc interpretation given by Muslims. The author of the Quran in response to: “We believe what is sent down to us” rather than pointing out “Parts of what you possess are not sent down, therefore believe in the uncorrupt Revelation” responds by asserting: “The Quran is the truth verifying what is with you”. In typical language “what is with you” does not refer to parts of what is with you, it refers to whatever is with them, in other words all that is with you. That is unless of course Zawadi can invent a new rule of Arabic grammar which shows us that “what is with you” actually means “some of that which is with you”.


It is clear then that Muslims while attempting to redeem and rescue the Quran have to distort the natural continuity, flow and structure of the sentence. The appeal to latter sources to spin new interpretations, otherwise known as Ad-Hoc, since none of their background assumptions are evidenced and none of the interpretations directly derive from the text, and they explicitly contradict the substance of the content and cogent argument being made by the author.

Zawadi has to offer such bizarre unnatural interpretations for all of the verses like these, here are a few examples:

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Torah that is between his hands (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina al-tawrat) and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that is between his hands (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina al-tawrat), as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. S. 5:46

… It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a confirmation of what is BETWEEN ITS HANDS (tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi) and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe. S. 12:111

And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a confirmation of that which is BETWEEN ITS HANDS (tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi) and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds. S. 10:37

And that which We have revealed to you of the Book, that is the truth confirming that which is BETWEEN ITS HANDS (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi); most surely with respect to His servants Allah is Aware, Seeing. S. 35:31

And He will teach him the Book, the Wisdom, the Torah, the Gospel… "And confirming the Torah which is between my hands (Wa musaddiqan lima bayna yadayya mina alttawrati), and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me." S. 3:48, 50

And it seems like Zawad pretends like we haven’t addressed his distortion of his own texts before, he would be wrong, since we have clearly shown “confirm” does not conjoin in meaning with “some falsehood and some truth”. Here are a few examples from the Quran itself:

saying, 'What, shall we forsake our gods for a poet possessed?' No indeed; but he brought the truth, and confirmed (wa saddaqa) the Envoys. S. 37:36-37

And Mary, Imran's daughter, who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and she confirmed (saddaqat) the Words of her Lord and His Books, and became one of the obedient. S. 66:12

thou hast confirmed (saddaqta) the vision; even so We recompense the good-doers. S. 37:105

And he who has come with the very truth and confirms (saddaqa) it, those they are the godfearing. S. 39:33

upon that day unto thy Lord shall be the driving. For he confirmed (saddaqa) it not, and did not pray, but he cried it lies, and he turned away, S. 75:30-32

Unless Zawadi wants to render his Quran obsolete of all objective meaning or cause it to become even more incoherent then he must stop shamefully reinterpreting meanings of words, phrases and sentences least he corrupts the understanding of the above passages aswell. Sam Shamoun covers more on this here.

In his papers Zawadi seems to suggest an original gospel was revealed directly to Jesus in the same sense the Quran is directly revealed to Mohammed. Zawadi argues this is an explicit teaching of the Quran. He also points out the Muslims must have known presumably the gospels possessed by Christian contemporaries of Mohammed must have been about Jesus and not revealed to Jesus, therefore the earliest Muslims knew the gospels were not a pure revelation sent down from God. While Zawadi has no explicit evidence of this he suggests it’s a logically valid deduction since the Muslims encountered so many Christians they ought to have known through such trade, interaction and such.

Zawadi is wrong on both counts. First lets look at his justification for believing a gospel was revealed directly to Jesus in the same sense the Quran was revealed to Mohammed. He uses Quran 5:46

And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun

In the first place, nothing in the passage suggests that God giving Jesus the Gospel was suppose to mean Jesus or a companion of his did not write a gospel down about Jesus. In fact some Muslims take the view Jesus wrote his gospel and it was lost. Other Muslims take the view his teachings were oral, and were lost. Whatever view you take the verse never explicitly denies either of those views nor does it oppose the view that a gospel given to Jesus cannot be transcribed by his apostles or a companion of them. 

Zawadi is therefore desperate in order to interpret this passage to logically negate the four gospels, that’s a complete non-sequitor and something far beyond the boundaries of the text itself.

Secondly it is quite obvious to any honest exegete the text is not be taken in a vacuum. Altogether 5:41-49 are to be taken as a whole. Let us quote the immediate context:

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. 5:46-47

In my response to a debate Shabir Ally had with James White, I address the same blunder Zawadi is making by trying to disconnect the context of these two passages:

“Shabir ally mentions two verses in the Qur'an. 1) The Injeel (gospel) being revealed to Issa(Jesus) 2) The Christians being commanded to judge the Injeel by what Allah has revealed 'therein' in the time of Mohammed.

However what he didn't tell his audience regarding the two verses he mentions is that he forcibly gave the appearance as if the Quran is referencing two different Injeels, in two different historical contexts. If however the audience were to read the passages in question, one could see something very important:

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. 5:46-47 Yusof Ali

As you can see, what Shabir Ally has not told his audience is that these passages are actually side by side and referencing the same Injeel in the context, the Injeel of the past given to Jesus is the same Injeel the Christians are to judge by in Mohammeds time, THE VERESS MAKE NO DISTINTION BETWEEN THE TWO. God mentions what he gave to Jesus and then tells the Christians to judge by this very Gospel that he has given Jesus.

In fact it would be a huge blunder in the Quran if what Ally is suggesting is true. The Quran had just said that the Gospel contained guidance and light, and the Quran instructs Christians to judge by what Allah has revealed in this Gospel. Yet if God is telling the Christians to judge by a Gospel that is not identical to the one given to Jesus then the Gospel they are using and judging by is the Gospel without guidance and light from God.

The other problem is clearly if Ally's interpretation is correct then the Quran does a very poor job of distinguishing between the so called Gospel given to Jesus and the one possessed by the Christians, as all through out the passage the text assumes the same Gospel is in view. Mr Ally may come back and say, well verse chapter 5:47 resolves this confusion:

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Mr Ally in other debates has rightfully noted that one possible translation of "and guarding it in saftey" (in arabic: wamuhayminan) is "quality control/ safe guard". Mr Ally not only suggests that this term implies the Quran supersedes the Gospel and is the final revelation and authority but that it also detects the falsehood and the truth in the Gospel. Whatever agrees with the Quran is true, whatever is contradicted is false. More on this in a minute.

Unfortunately Mr Ally there are four reasons to disagree with you. The first two I've already stated. The context already establishes that the Gospel in 5:46 is the gospel in 5:47. In fact God is referencing the gospel in 5:46 attributed to Jesus in order to establish it's foundation and validity to the Christians so that God could tell them to judge by it in 5:47, otherwise it would be obsolete to even mention it. Secondly the other problem is one can simply not judge by a gospel that doesn't have the light and guidance talked about in verse 5:46.

Third. It should also be noted that context determines the correct meaning of "Muhayminan". One might say: and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed" provides a context in which God is telling the Christians to use the current scriptures sent down (the Quran) to judge what God has or has not revealed in the Gospel. That would make complete sense and if that were the case "Muhayminan" should certainly be translated as "safe guard/quality control". However unfortunately for Mr Ally this is not the case, all anyone has to do is read the context:

Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, THEY are (no better than) THOSE WHO rebel. To THEE We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between THEM by what God hath revealed, and follow not THEIR vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; 5:46-47 Yusof Ali

Unfortunately for Mr Ally the judgement between "them" is not referring to the previous scriptures (the gospel) and the current scriptures (the Quran), rather it is referring to the people with vain desires. God is commanding Mohammed to judge between the people of the Gospel, not to follow their vain desires, clearly not judgment between the two books but rather people. Therefore it is abundantly clear that Mr Ally's suggested translation of Muhayminan is ruled out as the judgment and discerning is between people giving falsehoods about what was revealed by Allah, not the gospel itself. We should then be using another meaning for this word in this context, and all of those possible meanings are provided here and here thanks to Sam Shamoun.

There is one other point to mention. The fact that God is cautioning Mohammed to be weary of Christian believers and don't accept everything they state as revelation of God as being revelation since they follow vain desires is direct evidence against Mr Ally's view. Here God could have easily said the exact opposite. It wasn't the believers who shouldn't be trusted. But it was the Gospel itself! Or perhaps both! So God is rebuking the act of following the believers, and not the Gospel they possess, this is death blow to Mr Ally's position!

Finally, after coming to understand the Quran does not say to judge by what Allah revealed in the gospel by the Quran but then why doesn't the Quran just tell the Christians the truth of the matter? Why doesn't the Quran just say. Judge the Gospel by using the Quran, use the Quran to determine what is false and true. I mean that is a primary function of the Quran according to Mr Ally, but God in his cosmic intelligence thought the better way would be to let the Christians judge by partially corrupt scriptures when they have the final uncorrupt authentic revelation right in front of them? That's insulting to the big guy upstairs no doubt. So much for the "best of planners".”

Therefore not only is Zawadi’s interpretation an implausible interpretation, a far stretching  of the text, if we read the text as a whole in context, his interpretation is utterly absurd and not found anywhere! Since I’ve already cited the papers in which we address 5:47 I hope Zawadi stops avoiding these articles here at Answering Islam and stops trying to pretend we haven’t addressed his distortions of 5:47. It is transparent, 5:47 in context is clearly favorable to the book, and the warning of judgment and caution applies to the people of the book.

In fact let me quote you Maududi on the meaning of Muhamyin:

The Arabic word Muhaimin is very comprehensive in meaning. It means one who safeguards, watches over, stands witness,.preserves, and upholds. The Qur'an safeguards "the Book," for it has preserved within it the teachings of all the former Books. It watches over them in the sense that it will not let go waste then true teachings. It supports and upholds these Books in the sense that it corroborates the Word of God which has remained intact in them. It stands a witness because it bears testimony to the Word of God contained in those Books and helps to sort it out from the interpretations and commentaries of the people which were mixed with it; what is confirmed by the Qur'an is the Word of God and what is against it is that of the people. (source)

Notice I have highlighted the part of his commentary where he gives the plain lexical meaning of the word, then I underline his commentary where he gives his own interpretation of how each of these is applied. Note however his interpretation HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLAIN LEXICAL MEANING, which is a SAFEGUARD, WATCHER, WITNESS, UPHOLD AND PRESERVER.

On lexical, contextual, syntactical and grammatical grounds, the absurd claim that Muhaymn is being use as a quality control agent in this verse is not justified. Make sure to read those two articles which thoroughly expose Zawadi and then read here as a bonus because the Muhaymn is applied to Allah himself! See how we expose Zawadi (and others) further.

Now that we have that distortion out of the way, there is one last point to note on Zawadi’s citation of 5:46 to appeal to a verse that says the GOSPEL WAS GIVEN TO JESUS. You see if Zawadi had any consistency at all, he would have to interpret the following verses exactly the same:

When it is said to them, "Believe in what God Hath sent down," they say, "We believe in what was sent down TO US:" yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: "Why then have ye slain the prophets of God in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?" 2:91

God sent down a direct revelation to Jewish/Christian contemporaries of Mohammed?

Of course he did using Zawadi’s reasoning.

Muslims like Zawadi like to distinguish between God’s original revelation and the corrupted Revelation that contains aspects of truth. Here is an example of a verse Muslims believe refers to the original revelation:

Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in God, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?" 5:59

(Quick question: Do you think the People of the Book would disapprove of Muslims if Muslims were saying the revelation from before was “corrupt”? Of course! The question makes no sense only assuming God told them they had corrupted their own scriptures!)

That which came before refers to the revelations of purity and that which existed in pristine form, uncorrupt revelations of God. Yet in the Quran it’s true that Allah does not make the same distinction as Zawadi, since God can say Jews and Christians had a revelation given to them currently:

And lo! of the People of the Scripture there are some who believe in Allah and that which is revealed UNTO YOU and that which was revealed UNTO THEM, humbling themselves before Allah. They purchase not a trifling gain at the price of the revelations of Allah. Verily their reward is with their Lord. Lo! Allah is swift to take account. 3:199

Now either Allah was having a bad day or we have two possible interpretations.

1) The people of the book were sent down direct revelations; Christian contemporaries of Mohammed were really prophets like Mohammed.

2) The Quran does not distinguish between what was sent down to Jesus and what the People of the Book still possess e.g. “was revealed UNTO THEM” it presupposes the exact same revelation Jesus possessed was possessed still by his Christian followers, which is why the Quran appeals to it.

Notice the statement “that which was revealed unto them” cannot only refer to prophecies of Mohammed as Zawadi might think since the phrase before “that which was revealed to you” is applied to the full Quran being revealed to Mohammed, the exactly same terminology is applied to both, thus it’s revelation as a whole in both cases. Now using Zawadi’s reasoning, does this mean the Quran was corrupted aswell? 

Was Allah really speaking about these books as being corrupted, or does he refer to both as complete authentic revelations of God? Say Zawadi wanted to disjoint the text, and say the first half of the text means “the complete revelation, total pure from God” the next part is “only the valid revelation still in the Torah and Injeel” then we have a grammatical shambles and perversion of the Arabic. So I hope he really wants to explain how his Quran could not convey a message (even though it’s perfectly clear and detailed haha) even if Mohammed’s life depended on it!

 The absolute disjointed, mess of an interpretation offered by Zawadi, will always be hilarious to laugh at if he ever responds. The last option is he could confess Allah as the Lord of deception is trying to entice Christians into believing in Islam through a confusion of language and equivocation. If Allah really want to distinguish between the pure words of the most recent revelation and the corrupted revelation he would not be making claims like “we believe in what was revealed to you”, it would obviously be absolute chaos, if Islam actually asserted this was the sense in which it’s prophet operates! Yet God supposedly does this frequently:

Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers. 6:114

If we took Zawadi’s exegetical approach, this means that the People of the Book who allegedly were meant to know the Quran is truth, were the very people God gave the book to directly! Of course that’s an absurd interpretation.

Note this carefully: Jewish and Christian contemporaries of Mohammed (who the Quran says know the Quran is true) were the very people given the book (the Torah and Injeel) by God.

Obviously Zawadi needs to rethink his poor reasoning skills. Once he has done that he would know that the reason why God in the Quran can say he has given contemporary Jews and Christians the Scripture, is because the very author of the Quran held the view that they possessed the Scripture! Not because God gave them the Scripture directly, but because God is ultimately responsible for giving all his people the Scripture, in this sense he has given them direct access to his uncorrupt word. Obviously the sentence “Those whom we have given the Book” would not make sense if the Torah and Injeel here refer to the “Original Torah and Injeel” or the “Corrupt Torah and Injeel” from Zawadi’s perspective. Is Allah directly claiming responsibly for giving them a corrupted Book? Or is he claiming responsibility for giving them a true revelation? What a dilemma for Zawadi!

It can no longer be demonstrated then on the basis of 5:46 that early Muslims originally thought of a Gospel given or sent to Jesus in a literal sense, and I challenge Zawadi to give us a shred of evidence that this was their belief. This is merely the language of the Quran in saying each messenger and prophet has a revelation, this does not mean the four gospels are therefore not sanctioned by God or never thought of or taken into account in the Quran. This is not at all then conclusive proof of Zawadi’s position, nor is it sound in any sense. On contraire the texts all presuppose and affirm Biblical credulity.

What is also clear is as Dr. James White asserts the Quran does not display even a bare minimum knowledge of the Gospel. Is the author even aware of the Gospel or Gospels? The best explanation is the Christian usage of Gospel is what the Quran refers to in the historical context. Rather than deeming the gospels in plural, Christians speak of the Gospel as a single and as a singular message, the four gospels as a single unit providing the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is corroborated early on in Christian history:

“At a very early date it appears that the four Gospels were united in one collection. They must have been brought together very soon after the writing of the Gospel according to John. This fourfold collection was known originally as ‘The Gospel’ singular, not ‘The Gospels’ in the plural; there was only one Gospel, narrated in four records, distinguished as ‘according to Matthew’, ‘according to Mark’, and so on. About A.D. 115 Ignatius, bishop, of Antioch, refers to ‘The Gospel’ as an authoritative writing, and as he knew more than one of the four ‘Gospels’ it may well be that by ‘The Gospel’ sans phrase he means the fourfold collection which went by that name.” (Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? [Intervarsity Press; Downers Grove Il., rpt. 1992], CHAPTER III - THE CANON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, p. 23; bold emphasis ours)

For more sources and evidence showing the Christian use of Gospel from early periods read here (second half).

Zawadi asks several questions:

“How could White even begin to propose that such a scenario is plausible, let alone possible? Is White trying to convince us that Muslims who were living in Abyssinia after escaping persecution in Mecca under the protection of the Christian King were in no way, shape or form exposed to the fact that Christians believed in four gospels written about Jesus (peace be upon him)? How about the Prophet's relationship with Mariyah the Coptic and his interactions with Waraqa bin Nawfal, Bahira the Monk, the Najran Christians, etc.???
Notice, that I am not arguing that these encounters constitute explicit evidence that the Muslims knew the contents of the New Testament as well as White hoped, but rather I am pointing out the implausibility that Muslims, despite all these interactions couldn't have known the very basic and popular fact that Christians held in their possession four gospels WRITTEN ABOUT Jesus (peace be upon him).”

And:
Seeing that Islamic tradition didn't shy away from mentioning Christian inquiries and objections to Islam, why then didn't they (similar to Adi bin Hatim) ask why the Qur'an denies the crucifixion, despite the four gospels attesting to it, if in fact the Qur'an was attesting the textual incorruptibility of the four gospels just as White asserts?
Zawadi of course has made the mistaken assumption that all Christians believe the Quran denies the crucifixion. In fact it is the Muslims themselves like Shabir Ally who subscribe to the apparent death theory e.g. Jesus was crucified and passed out. It is clear then that even many Muslims like Ahmed Deedat and Shabir Ally who believe Jesus was indeed crucified. And here at Answering Islam many of us believe it is quite obvious the Quran teaches the death of Jesus. We have also documented how some Muslims could believe the Quran is authentic and still affirm the Gospel despite the crucifixion over here.

In fact here is several early Muslim adherents who accepted the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ despite what the Quran and Gospels say:

"According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Ibn Ishaq- 'Umar b. 'Abdullah b. Urwah b. al-Zubayr- Ibn Sulaym al-Ansari al-Zuraqi: One of our women was under a vow to appear on al-Jamma', a mountain in 'Aqiq near Madinah, and I went with her. We stood on the mountain and, lo and behold, there was a huge grave with two huge stone slabs over it- one at the head, one at the feet. On them was an inscription in the ancient script (musnad) which I could not decipher. I carried the slabs with me halfway down the mountain, they proved too heavy, however, so I threw one (down) and descended with the other. I showed it to readers of Syriac (to determine) whether they knew its script; but they did not. I showed it to psalm (zabur) copyists from the Yaman and those versed in reading the musnad script; but they did not recognize it, either.

As I found nobody who recognized it, I threw it under a coffer we had, and there it lay for years. Then people from Mah in Persia cam to us looking for pearls, and I said to them, ' Do you have a script?' 'Yes,' they said. I brought out the stone for them and lo and behold, they read it. It was in their script, 'This is the tomb of Jesus, son of Mary, God's messenger to the people of this land.' They were its people at that time. Among them HE DIED, SO THEY BURIED HIM ON THE MOUNTAINTOP.

According to Ibn Humyad- Salamah- Ibn Ishaq: The rest of the apostles were assaulted, viciously exposed to the sun, tortured, and dishonorably paraded. The Roman king, who ruled over them and who was an idol-worshiper, heard this. He was told that a man among the Israelites, subject to his rule, WAS ASSAULTED AND SLAIN. The man had announced to them that he was God's messenger. He performed miracles, revived the dead and healed the sick. He created a bird of clay, breathed into it, and it flew, by God's permission. He told them of hidden things. The king exclaimed, 'But why did you not mention this to me, about him and them? By God, had I known, I would not have let them have a free hand against him!' Then he sent for the apostles and snatched them from the hands of the Israelites. He asked the apostles about the faith of Jesus and about his fate. They told him, whereupon he embraced their faith. The king released Sergius, and concealed him. He took THE WOODEN CROSS WHICH JESUS HAD BEEN CRUCIFIED, AND HE HONORED AND PRESERVED IT BECAUSE JESUS HAD TOUCHED IT. The king became thus became an enemy of the Israelites, and killed many of them. From this arose Christianity in Rome." (Tabari, pp. 123-124; bold and capital emphasis ours) (more here)

All the previous articles also document the ridiculous explanations provided by Muslims, and point out there is not a single authentic tradition from Mohammed or one of his companions explaining the precise meaning of 4:157-159 which is why for example Yusuf Ali says regarding even 4:159:

There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them –

Ali explains this as follows:

Before his death: Interpreters are not agreed as to the exact meaning. Those who hold that Jesus did not die refer the pronoun "his" to Jesus. They say that Jesus is still living in the body and that he will appear just before the Final Day, after the coming of the Mahdi, when the world will be purified of sin and unbelief. There will be a final death before the final Resurrection, but all will have believed before that final death. Others think that "his" is better referred to "none of the People of the Book", and that the emphatic form "must believe" (la-yu` minanna) denotes more a question of duty than of fact. (more here)

But Zawadi’s main objection that Muslims would have known about Christian scriptures and what they teach, and so would have rejected the gospels about Jesus is also undermined by his own sources, not implicitly, but rather explicitly:

Al-Tabari cites Matthew's Gospel, more specifically Matthew 2:1-15, as an accurate depiction of historical events that transpired in Jesus' life:

"Some historians mentioned that Jesus was born forty-two years after Augustus had become emperor. Augustus continued to live on, and his reign lasted fifty-six years; some add a few days. The Jews assaulted Christ. The sovereign in Jerusalem at the time was Caesar, and it was on his behalf that Herod the Great reigned in Jerusalem. Messengers of the king of Persia came to him. Sent to Christ, they came to Herod by mistake. They informed Herod that the king of Persia had sent them to offer Christ the gifts they carried, gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense. They told him that they had observed that Christ's star had risen - they had learned this from computation. They offered him the gifts at Bethlehem in Palestine. When Herod learned about them, he plotted against Christ, and looked for him in order to slay him. God commanded an angel to tell Joseph, who was with Mary at the sanctuary, that Herod intended to slay the child, and to instruct him to flee to Egypt with the child and its mother.

"When Herod died the angel told Joseph, who was in Egypt, that Herod was dead and that his son Archelaus reigned instead - the man who sought to slay the child was no longer alive. Joseph took the child to Nazareth in Palestine, to FULFILL the word of Isaiah the prophet, 'I called you out of Egypt'..." (Tabari, The History of al-Tabari Volume IV - The Ancient Kingdom, Moshe Perlman trans. [The State University of New York Press; Albany, 1987], pp. 124-125)

The footnote reads:

"The reference ascribed here to Isaiah is in Hosea 11:1." (Ibid, p. 125)

Ibn Ishaq quotes the Gospel of John as the very same gospel given to Jesus:

"Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted FROM WHAT JOHN THE APOSTLE SET DOWN FOR THEM WHEN HE WROTE THE GOSPEL FOR THEM FROM THE TESTAMENT OF JESUS SON OF MARY: 'He that hateth me hateth the Lord. And if I had not done in their presence works which none other before me did, they had not sin: but from now they are puffed up with pride and think that they will overcome me and also the Lord. But the word that is in the law must be fulfilled, 'They hated me without a cause' (i.e. without reason). But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord's presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth from the Lord's presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt. "The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad; in Greek he is the paraclete." (Ishaq, Life Of Muhammad, trans. Alfred Guillaume, pp. 103-104)

The preceding Gospel citation is taken from John 15:23-16:1. Ishaq never once hints that this particular Gospel is inauthentic or corrupt. (more here)

We must ask Zawadi then using his own reasoning, if the Muslims knew the gospels about Jesus could not of been the gospel given to Jesus, how then do these Muslims provide information showing the Gospel (singular) is contained in Matthew and John? Thus Per Zawadi’s own reasoning this kind of mistake could not have occurred.

Further more, how is it the Gospel(s) was able to be written down in Arabic as sanctioned by God? And why are Muslims referring to the Gospels as legitimate?

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from THE GOSPEL in Hebrew as much AS ALLAH WISHED HIM TO WRITE ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3)

... Khadija then took him to Waraqa bin Naufil, the son of Khadija's paternal uncle. Waraqa had been converted to Christianity in the Pre-lslamic Period and used to write Arabic and write of THE GOSPEL in Arabic as much AS ALLAH WISHED HIM TO WRITE ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 478)
Narrated 'Aisha: 
... Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father's brother, who during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the Arabic writing and used to write of the GOSPELS in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111) 
The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the GOSPELS in Arabic... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605) 
Al-Tabari writes:

According to Hisham (b. Muhammad al-Kalbi) - one of his colleagues - Amr b. Abi al-Miqdam - Amr b. Ikrimah: We spent the morning of the day on which Husayn was killed in Medina. One of our mawali told us,

"Yesterday I heard a voice calling out:
O men who have rashly killed Husayn, do expect torture and chastisement. All the people of heaven, prophets, angels, and tribes prosecute you. You have been cursed by the tongue of the son of David, and of Moses, AND OF THE BRINGER OF THE GOSPELS."

According to Hisham (b. Muhammad al-Kalbi) - Umar b. Hazum al-Kalbi said that his father had heard that voice. (The History of Tabari, The Caliphate of Yazid B. Mu-Awiyah, trans. I. K. A. Howard [State University of New York Press], Volume 19, pp. 178-179)

And:

Ahmad ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Salam [also] said:

I have translated the beginning of this book, and the Torah, THE GOSPELS, and THE BOOKS OF THE PROPHETS and disciples from Hebrew, Greek, and Sabian, which are the languages of the people of each book, in Arabic, letter for letter ... (Abu 'l-Faraj Muhammad ibn Ishaq al-Nadim, The Fihrist - A 10th Century AD Survey of Islamic Culture, edited and translated by Bayard Dodge [Great Books of the Islamic World, Inc., Columbia University Press, 1970], p. 42; bold and capital emphasis ours)

Ultimately all of these citations are unnecessary as it is Zawadi himself who affirms this article, according to his own website he says:

The main problem with Christians who put forth these arguments is that they fail to identify and understand how the Qur'an uses the terms 'Torah' and 'Gospel' in the Qur'an. When the Qur'an talks about the Torah and Gospel, ONE OF IT’S INTENTIONS is to speak about the original revelations sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively. SOMETIMES the Qur'an or authentic hadith might appear to be speaking about the Torah and Gospel, which Jews and Christians refer to.

For example, when I debate the topic 'Did Jesus Claim Divinity' with Christians, I usually issue this challenge 'Show me where Jesus claimed divinity in the Gospel'. Now, my intention here is that I am referring to THE GOSPEL referred to by Christians and that is the COMBINED FOUR GOSPELS of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. However, my intention is not to state that this is the actual Gospel that God revealed to Jesus peace be upon him. So the word is used in different contexts and Christians fail to identify this when it comes to studying the Qur'an and authentic hadith. (source)

It is clear then, according to Zawadi not every usage of “Gospel” in the Quran refers to the Gospel given to Jesus, but refers to the “Gospel” (four canonical gospels) as possessed by the Christians. Thus gospel in the singular can refer to the collection of gospels collected by the Christians. We further have proof that these Gospel(s) were being translated with the direct explicit approval of Allah. We have proof that Gospel and Gospels are used interchangeably. We have further proof Muslims appealed to the Gospel to vindicate Mohammed as a prophet and to describe accurate history. Furthermore there is no contesting from the early Muslims about any of the authors or apostles! Also what is clear is we have direct evidence early Muslims approved of the Gospel, but no evidence early Muslims believed a distinct Gospel (apart from the ones in the Christian New Testament) was given to Issa that was later corrupted. Per our challenge above, we challenge Zawadi to provide evidence of such an anachronism!

Further more Zawadi states:

Islam states that one of the ways to follow the Injeel is to believe that it predicts the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Yet according to Zawadi since the “original Injeel” given to Issa, did not exist, the Quran demands the Christians to judge by the Injeel that did exist in his time, which Zawadi says is:

The Injeel was not totally lost. Nowhere does the Qur'an refer to the Injeel revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him) as some sort of documented book. Rather, they were the teachings (revealed of course) of Jesus (peace be upon him) of which some of them could have found their way to the four gospels and possibly even other documents unknown to us today…

As I have argued earlier in the article, such a burden would lie on White to demonstrate that the Muslims couldn't have known such a very basic fact such as Christians possessing four different gospels. We are not even discussing the contents of the New Testament here, rather the focus here is on the very public, popular and rudimentary fact that Christians possess four different gospels.

Since Zawadi concedes the Injeel possessed by the Christians at the time of Mohammed was the four gospels and unknown sources, why does Zawadi then disobey Islam and the Quran?

Zawadi who asserts that Islam says Christians are commanded to judge the Injeel that contains prophecies of Mohammed by using the Quran but he has failed to carry out Allah’s command in his apologetics:

I found this "Muhammad in the Bible" argument to be effective with the Jews and Christians of the Prophet Muhammad's time since many of them still knew the true teachings of the Torah and Gospel despite its textual corruption. These people are not here today and that is why I personally do not use the "Muhammad in the Bible" argument. (source)

Zawadi has thus broken the command of Islam, and elevated his own desires above the command of God! Islam calls this shirk and claims Zawadi has made himself into a Lord. (9:31)

Further more Zawadi explains why he gave up this argument:

How is there any contradiction between me saying that the prediction of Muhammad (peace be upon him) to come is there in the current Bible, yet they are vague when looked at along with the other verses that are corrupted?

For example, I believe that when Jesus referred to the Comforter to come in the New Testament he is actually referring to Muhammad (peace be upon him). However, it is not clear because of the false verses surrounding it.

What is so difficult to understand regarding this position of mine? I never said that the predictions in fullness have remained preserved in the Bible. (here)

Note Zawadi’s absurd reasoning for giving up this argument. He claims many Jews and Christians still knew the true teachings of the Torah and Injeel at the time of Mohammed while simultaneously claiming they had the exact gospels as the Christians today with the exception of a few unknown sources. We must ask Zawadi how they knew the true teachings of the Torah and Injeel? Without having uncorrupt copies of these revelations? This is obviously an absurd unjustifiable reason for replacing your own whim over Allah’s command! Unless Zawadi is confessing the original Torah and Injeel existed in the time of Mohammed thus exposing Zawadi’s own fallacious response to Dr. White.

Conclussion

We would personally like to thank Zawadi for providing further support that his adhoc explanations and arbitrary anachronistic assertions can never be justified by Islam or reason or even the science of tafsir. His exegesis is as “shoddy” as it gets, and to end this article, we will quote the words of Dr. James White which still hold to be true:

“To establish his interpretation, Bassam would have to derive it not from later tafsir, but from the text itself. I would go into the text more fully here to elucidate the problems Bassam's interpretation has, but as I said above, brevity is of necessity this evening. Suffice it to say that if you attempt to make this nothing more than a "believe in the Qur'an not the Injeel because the Injeel has been corrupted and lost" assertion, you leave the text without meaning


Now, the anachronistic nature of Bassam Zawadi's reading of the text is illustrated by the included element of the alleged prophetic testimony to Muhammad, surely one of the weakest elements of modern Islam's apologetic framework. Some Salafi interpreters do, in fact, see such a theme behind this text, as well as Surah 10:94, though it is hard to prove this from the text itself. The only way to really derive such an interpretation is to do so by reading the Qur'an in the light of another source, i.e., the hadith, and many are willing to do this (though few consider the epistemological problem this creates for their claims regarding the nature of the Qur'an in contrast with the nature of the ahadith).