First problem I see is he gives the impression that is the only valid criterion we can utilize to make that determination. Second problem I notice his inconsistent methodology, for instance there are several occasions he has used deductive reasoning in order to determine if a certain text is referring to the messiah without the text explicitly saying its about the messiah.
Third problem is that Funkdude88 is attempting to limit us to the words of Jesus, the words of Jesus and the testimony of the authors through the INSPIRATION of the HOLY SPIRIT of the New testament are equally acceptable according to the Christian worldview.
I will not be demonstrating that the Angel of the Lord happens to be distinct from the Lord in personhood because it is self explanatory, Angel OF the LORD.
Exodus 3:2-14:
There the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
And Moses said, “Here I am.”5 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father,[a] the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.7 The Lord said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. 8 So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey—the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.”11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?”12 And God said, “I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you[b] will worship God on this mountain.”13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[c] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
The Angel of the Lord appears to Moses in a burning bush and identifies himself as I AM and the narrator goes to the extent as referring to this very Angel as God, notice verses 3-4
So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.” When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, GOD called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses. And in verse 8 of the passage the Angel of the Lord proclaims that he will recuse the Israelites out of Egypt . That promise was fulfilled in Exodus 14:19
19 Then the Angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel’s army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them, 20 coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.
We see in this passage it is the Angel of God who saves the Israelites out of Egypt. In other words not only is the Angel of the Lord identified as I AM but the very same person that lead the Israelites out of Egypt.
1. The angel of the Lord is personally distinct from the God the Father but yet identifies himself as I AM and is the very same person that lead the Israelites out of Egypt.
Jesus refers to himself as I AM to the Jews in the gospel of John, here is the context:
I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.” 52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?” 54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Jesus utters the very same statement that the angel of the Lord makes about himself and what God says about himself through out the Old testament, for reference of the I AM statements consult this website http://rj-mccauley.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-i-am-of-old-testament-in-new.html.
Also the book of Jude refers to Jesus as the very one that saved the Israelites out of Egypt, this is what the verse says:
Jude 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And keep in mind most early manuscripts read Jesus. One may dispute there is a textual variant in that passage but this is what Daniel Wallace says in his NET notes:
Jude 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And keep in mind most early manuscripts read Jesus. One may dispute there is a textual variant in that passage but this is what Daniel Wallace says in his NET notes:
"The reading ᾿Ιησοῦς (Ihsous, “Jesus”) is deemed too hard by several scholars, since it involves the notion of Jesus acting in the early history of the nation Israel. However, not only does this reading enjoy the strongest support from a variety of early witnesses (e.g., A B 33 81 1241 1739 1881 2344 pc vg co Or1739mg), but the plethora of variants demonstrate that scribes were uncomfortable with it, for they seemed to exchange κύριος (kurios, “Lord”) or θεός (qeos, “God”) for ᾿Ιησοῦς (though Ì72 has the intriguing reading θεὸς Χριστός [qeos Cristos, “God Christ”] for ᾿Ιησοῦς). In addition to the evidence supplied in NA27 for this reading, note also {88 322 323 424c 665 915 2298 eth Cyr Hier Bede}. As difficult as the reading ᾿Ιησοῦς is, in light of v. 4 and in light of the progress of revelation (Jude being one of the last books in the NT to be composed), it is wholly appropriate"
Here are the premises so far:
- The angel of the Lord is personally distinct from the Father, he also identifies himself as I AM and he is the very same person that lead the Israelites out of Egypt.
2.Jesus is personally distinct from the Father, he also identifies himself as I AM and he is depicted as the person according to Jude 1:5 that lead the Israelites out of Egypt
- 3.Therefore Jesus is the Angel of the Lord
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