This is a re-posting of my comments on a blog thread here:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/01/samatar-mohamed-still-desperately.html
I challenge Samatar or Zaatari himself to respond:
Well said David. To Samatar I actually went to Zaatari's link you have posted, it would actually take a while to document all the various problems, but here is a few i've found.
1) Zaatari first defends the interpretation that "fight" can be a verbal or spiritual division on the basis that Jesus uses the word "Sword" in a similar way. However Zaatari then goes on to contradict himself and post two commentaries (one by Maududi) that contradict his previous claim that it is referring to spiritual or verbal warfare, and demonstrate this was physical warfare.
2) Oddly enough Zaatari also complains about the fact that Christians need to read the reason for revelation and the historical context and he provides this context, but still advocates the possible interpretation that "fight" here can mean warfare by the tongue. So why complain to Christians about historical context, give the historical context and then still contradict your own suggestion and say it can also mean warfare by tongue in this context? after proving it doesn't mean that in this context. Then don't complain in the first place! Now to the actual commentaries themselves.
Firstly the commentaries seem to be advocating a view that while the commandment to fight is offensive, it was necessary because the best defense is a good offense. The entire premise is that the Roman Empire was eventually going to wipe out the Muslims and they were building and army to do so, so the warfare while being offensive was primarily also "defensive". Lets look at some problems with that.
1) Before the battle of Tabuk, Mohammed is said to have sent an army of 3000 to Mu'tah to extract revenge on the Romans who had in turn killed 15 Arab Muslims spreading the tidings about the Treaty of Hudaibiyah to fellow northern Arab clans, among them one of these men was said to be Mohammed's personal ambassador Al-Harith bin Umair who had been sent on an envoy with a message for the Governor of Busra who in turn should deliver this message to the Casear.
Firstly, to send 3000 men for the death of 15 Muslim men is a certainly a declaration of war from Mohammed. The commentators mention no idea of negotiation or a peace treaty or even "repentance" sort by Mohammed or his allies. Secondly the commentators fail to comment on the "content" of the message originally sent to Caesar in the first place! What was the content of the original message sent to the Governor and the Casear? What might cause them to kill those Muslim men? (If in fact that did happen). No doubt in my mind this could actually be the famous letter to Hercules, king of the Byzantines or something very similar to it, Mohammed is known historically to have sent the the same theme based letter to every ruler.
Here it is:
"In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. From Muhammad, the slave of Allâh and His Messenger to Hercules, king of the Byzantines. Blessed are those who follow true guidance. I invite you to embrace Islam so that you may live in security. If you come within the fold of Islam, Allâh will give you double reward, but in case you turn your back upon it, then the burden of the sins of all your people shall fall on your shoulders. "Say (O Muhammad [pbuh]): ‘O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh.’ Then, if they turn away, say: ‘Bear witness that we are Muslims.’ " [The Noble Qur'an 3:64] [Sahih Al-Bukhari 1/4,5]
2) Mohammads Army and his revenge on the Romans. Here is a quotation from Maududi's commentary: "Accordingly, in the month of Jamadi-ul-Ula A. H. 8, he sent an army of three thousand towards the Syrian border. When this army reached near Ma'an, the Muslims learnt that Shurahbil was marching with an army of one hundred thousand to fight-with them and that the Caesar, who himself was at Hims, had sent another army consisting of one hundred thousand soldiers under his brother Theodore. But in spite of such fearful news, the brave small band of the Muslims marched on fearlessly and encountered the big army of Shurahbil at M'utah. And the result of the encounter in which the Muslims were fighting against fearful odds (the ratio of the two armies was 1:33), as very favorable, for the enemy utterly failed to defeat them" Clearly Zaatari and Samatar expect us to believe this fanciful legend, but under what basis? none is provided. Not only does it say 100,000 Romans failed to defeat 3000 Muslims, it indicates that the two groups were actually "fighting" in combat and the Romans still failed! No explanation is given as to how, not even an assertion of a divine miracle! What happened to the captives? What about the sex slaves and bootay? Maududi is stunningly silent.
2) Mohammads Army and his revenge on the Romans. Here is a quotation from Maududi's commentary: "Accordingly, in the month of Jamadi-ul-Ula A. H. 8, he sent an army of three thousand towards the Syrian border. When this army reached near Ma'an, the Muslims learnt that Shurahbil was marching with an army of one hundred thousand to fight-with them and that the Caesar, who himself was at Hims, had sent another army consisting of one hundred thousand soldiers under his brother Theodore. But in spite of such fearful news, the brave small band of the Muslims marched on fearlessly and encountered the big army of Shurahbil at M'utah. And the result of the encounter in which the Muslims were fighting against fearful odds (the ratio of the two armies was 1:33), as very favorable, for the enemy utterly failed to defeat them" Clearly Zaatari and Samatar expect us to believe this fanciful legend, but under what basis? none is provided. Not only does it say 100,000 Romans failed to defeat 3000 Muslims, it indicates that the two groups were actually "fighting" in combat and the Romans still failed! No explanation is given as to how, not even an assertion of a divine miracle! What happened to the captives? What about the sex slaves and bootay? Maududi is stunningly silent.
Allegedly this victory gave rise to mass conversions to Islam including the commander of one Roman Army, whom Casear killed for not leaving Islam. (Sounds more more propaganda to wage war against Rome if you ask me).
3) Accordingly both commentators go on to say: "No wonder that such events as these made the Caesar realize the nature of the danger that was threatening his Empire from Arabia." "realizing all that, Caesar was aware of the progressive danger threatening his borders, especially Ash-Sham-fronts which were neighbouring Arab lands. So he concluded that demolition of the Muslims power had grown an urgent necessity. This decision of his should, in his opinion, be achieved before the Muslims become too powerful to conquer, and raise troubles and unrest in the adjacent Arab territories." The commentators themselves confirm that Casear was wanting to protect his borders and was worried about his empire, so he allegedly raised an Army to defend his borders.
4) This would be a legitimate justification (even if it were true) for a King, but Maududi concedes his position is not accepted by most historians: "In this connection, it is pertinent to point out that the general impression given by the historians of the campaigns of the Holy Prophet about the Campaign of Tabuk is not correct. They relate the event in a way as if the news of the mustering of the Roman armies near the Arabian frontier was itself false. The fact is that the Caesar had begun to muster his armies, but the Holy Prophet forestalled him and arrived on the scene before he could make full preparations for the invasion"
5) Maududi also highlights the ridiculous conditions in which Mohammed's army assemble and endure. The economy was harsh, most Muslims and Muslimah's had to sell close to everything they had to support Mohammed's endeavor. Mohammed insisted those not aiding were really hypocrites, The journey itself a ultra hot desert climate with little to no water or resources including camels, it was a long foot wal, spirits were low. But Mohammed was adamant, no matter how poor and unready and unequipped for war the Arabs were, Mohammed still persisted in Jihad. Before battle Mohammed is said to have according to al-Mubarakpuri (Zaatari's second commentator): "Arriving at Tabuk and camping there, the Muslim army was ready to face the enemy. There, the Messenger of All⨠[pbuh] delivered an eloquent speech that included the most inclusive words. In that speech he urged the Muslims to seek the welfare of this world and the world to come." Best of both worlds eh! Bootay!
6) Next Maududi tells us: "When they arrived at Tabuk, they learnt that the Caesar and his allies had withdrawn their troops from the frontier and there was no enemy to fight with. " Probably because as Maududi concedes the majority of historians knew there was no army waiting for them. And Mohammed's supposed "victory" over 100,000 seems incredibly unlikely. Hence I believe the evidence indicates he straight went there and took over with no-body to stop him and his hordes. However the alledged justification by Maududi for the Roman Army's absence is "Of course they evaded! How can they be there when Mohammed's original 3000 beat 100,000, imagine 30,000 defeating 200,000 easy!!" Truely a faithful spin.
6) Next Maududi tells us: "When they arrived at Tabuk, they learnt that the Caesar and his allies had withdrawn their troops from the frontier and there was no enemy to fight with. " Probably because as Maududi concedes the majority of historians knew there was no army waiting for them. And Mohammed's supposed "victory" over 100,000 seems incredibly unlikely. Hence I believe the evidence indicates he straight went there and took over with no-body to stop him and his hordes. However the alledged justification by Maududi for the Roman Army's absence is "Of course they evaded! How can they be there when Mohammed's original 3000 beat 100,000, imagine 30,000 defeating 200,000 easy!!" Truely a faithful spin.
7) What happened next? Mohammed takes over the region and forces the tribute of jizya! Maududi: "he brought pressure on the small states that lay between the Roman Empire and the Islamic State and were at that time under the influence of the Romans, and subdued and made them the tributaries of the Islamic State. For instance, some Christian chiefs Ukaidir bin Abdul Malik Kindi of Dumatul Jaiidal, Yuhanna bin D'obah of Allah, and the chiefs of Maqna, Jarba' and Azruh also submitted and agreed to pay Jizyah to the Islamic State of Al- Madinah. As a result of this, the boundaries of the Islamic State were extended right up to the Roman Empire, and the majority of the Arab clans, who were being used by the Caesar against Arabia, became the allies of the Muslims against the Romans." An example from al-Mubarakpuri: "As it was a moony night Khalid could see Ukaidir come out to hunt them, so he captured him ? though he was surrounded by his men ? and brought him back to the Messenger of All⨠[pbuh], who spared his life and made peace with him for the payment of two thousand camels, eight hundred heads of cattle, four hundred armours and four hundred lances. He obliged him to recognize the duty of paying tribute and charged him with collecting it from Dumat, Tabuk, Ailah and Taima'."
8) Finally Mohammed returns home, and destroys the mosque where his opposition was plotting against him just in case he lost the war. Yep "all opposition" eliminated. The opposition known as "munafiq" aka hypocrites. Yet who can really conceive of a conquered people being hypocrites when they despise the conqueror? al-Mubarakpuri concludes: "The effect of this invasion is great as regards extending and confirming the Muslims' influence and domination on the Arabian Peninsula. It was quite obvious to everybody that no power but Islam's would live long among the Arabs. The remainders of Jahiliyin and hypocrites ? who used to conspire steadily against the Muslims and who perpetually relied on Byzantine power when they were in need of support or help ? these people lost their expectations and desires of ever reclaiming their ex-influence. Realizing that there was no way out and that they were to submit to the fait accompli, they gave up their attempts. From that time on, hypocrites were no longer treated leniently or even gently by the Muslims. All⨠not only bade Muslims to treat them severely but He also forbade them to take their gift charities or perform prayer on their dead, or ask All⨦#146;s forgiveness for them or even visit their tombs." In conclusion, there goes freedom of religion, speech, tolerance and the Islamic Supremacy is now born!
Samatar as you can see, ultimately not only is Jihad referring to physical warfare, conquering, collecting plunder and women, tribute and submission, the likelihood that this war was a defensive war against the Roman Empire is completely unsupported. If it was a defensive war Mohammed also had the perfect opportunity to return home after the Roman army never showed up. But instead he subdues the Christians, accumulates the plunder and forces the jizya tribute tax among the people. Make sure to address everything. And don't appeal to sloppy non-historical pseudo scholarship like Zaatari has.
UPDATE
After finding Maududi's introduction to Surah 9 At Taubah. I noticed that Zaatari in his link has specifically omitted a very relevant section of Maududi's real conclusion and opinions which directly contradict Samatar and Zaatari own views, once again the misuse of sources will be exposed. Here it is for everyone:
Samatar as you can see, ultimately not only is Jihad referring to physical warfare, conquering, collecting plunder and women, tribute and submission, the likelihood that this war was a defensive war against the Roman Empire is completely unsupported. If it was a defensive war Mohammed also had the perfect opportunity to return home after the Roman army never showed up. But instead he subdues the Christians, accumulates the plunder and forces the jizya tribute tax among the people. Make sure to address everything. And don't appeal to sloppy non-historical pseudo scholarship like Zaatari has.
UPDATE
After finding Maududi's introduction to Surah 9 At Taubah. I noticed that Zaatari in his link has specifically omitted a very relevant section of Maududi's real conclusion and opinions which directly contradict Samatar and Zaatari own views, once again the misuse of sources will be exposed. Here it is for everyone:
Problems of the Period
If we keep in view the preceding background, we can easily find out the problems that were confronting the Community at that time. They were:
Now that the administration of the whole of Arabia had come in the hands of the Believers, and all the opposing powers had become helpless, it was necessary to make a clear declaration of that policy which was to be adopted to make her a perfect Dar-ul-Islam. Therefore the following measures were adopted: A clear declaration was made that all the treaties with the mushriks were abolished and the Muslims would be released from the treaty obligations with them after a respite of four months.(vv. 1-3). This declaration was necessary for uprooting completely the system of life based on shirk and to make Arabia exclusively the center of Islam so that it should not in any way interfere with the spirit of Islam nor become an internal danger for it. A decree was issued that the guardianship of the Ka`abah, which held central position in all the affairs of Arabia, should be wrested from the mushriks and placed permanently in the hands of the Believers, (vv. 12-18) that all the customs and practices of the shirk of the era of 'ignorance' should be forcibly abolished: that the mushriksshould not be allowed even to come near the "House" (v. 28). This was to eradicate every trace of shirk from the "House" that was dedicated exclusively to the worship of Allah. The evil practice of Nasi, by which they used to tamper with the sacred months in the days of 'ignorance', was forbidden as an act of kufr(v. 37). This was also to serve as an example to the Muslims for eradicating every vestige of the customs of ignorance from the life of Arabia (and afterwards from the lives of the Muslims everywhere). In order to enable the Muslims to extend the influence of Islam outside Arabia, they were enjoined to crush with sword the non- Muslim powers and to force them to accept the sovereignty of the Islamic State. As the great Roman and Iranian Empires were the biggest hindrances in the way, a conflict with them was inevitable. The object of Jihad was not to coerce them to accept Islam they were free to accept or not to accept it-but to prevent them from thrusting forcibly their deviations upon others and the coming generations. The Muslims were enjoined to tolerate their misguidance only to the extent that they might have the freedom to remain misguided, if they chose to be so, provided that they paid Jizyah(v. 29) as a sign of their subjugation to the Islamic State.
- to make the whole of Arabia a perfect Dar-ul-Islam,
- to extend the influence of Islam to the adjoining countries,
- to crush the mischiefs of the hypocrites, and
- to prepare the Muslims for Jihad against the non- Muslim world.
The third important problem was to crush the mischiefs of the hypocrites, who had hitherto been tolerated in spite of their flagrant crimes. Now that there was practically no pressure upon them from outside, the Muslims were enjoined to treat them openly as disbelievers (v. 73). Accordingly, the Holy Prophet set on fire the house of Swailim, where the hypocrites used to gather for consultations in order to dissuade the people from joining the expedition to Tabuk. Likewise on his return from Tabuk, he ordered to pull down and burn the 'Mosque' that had been built to serve as a cover for the hypocrites for hatching plots against the true Believers.
In order to prepare the Muslims for Jihad against the whole non-Muslim world, it was necessary to cure them even of that slight weakness of faith from which they were still suffering. For there could be no greater internal danger to the Islamic Community than the weakness of faith, especially where it was going to engage itself single-handed in a' conflict with the whole non-Muslim world. That is why those people who had lagged behind in the Campaign to Tabuk or had shown the least negligence were severely taken to task, and were considered as hypocrites if they had no plausible excuse for not fulfilling that obligation. Moreover, a clear declaration was made that in future the sole criterion of a Muslim's faith shall be the exertions he makes for the uplift of the Word of Allah and the role he plays in the conflict between Islam and kufr. Therefore, if anyone will show any hesitation in sacrificing his life, money, time and energies, his faith shall not be regarded as genuine. (vv. 81-96).If the above-mentioned important points are kept in view during the study of this Surah, it will facilitate the understanding of its contents.
As you can see in the long run Maududi's opinion is no different from that of the likes of Ibn Kathir himself. How this important fact was omitted is beyond words!
But what else was omitted? Maududi's actual commentary of the verses themselves:
For the continued rebuttal to Zaatari and Samatar check out Part 2
But what else was omitted? Maududi's actual commentary of the verses themselves:
26Though the people of the Book professed to believe in Allah and the Hereafter, in fact they believed in neither. For only that person really believes in Allah who acknowledges Him as the only One God and the only One Lord, and does not associate with Him any other, whatsoever, in His Being, in His characteristics, in His rights and in His powers and authority. But according to this definition of shirk both the Christians and the Jews were guilty of shirk as has been made plain in the verses that follow: therefore their profession of belief in Allah was meaningless. Likewise they did not really believe in the Hereafter, in spite of the fact that they believed in Resurrection. For it is not enough: one must also believe that on that Day absolute justice will be done on the basis of one's belief and actions. One should also believe that no ransom and no expiation and no 'spiritual' relationships with any 'saint' shall be of any avail on that Day. It is absolutely meaningless to believe in the Hereafter without this. And the Jews and the Christians had polluted their faiths because they believed that such things would protect them against justice on that Day.27The second reason why Jihad should be waged against them is drat they did not adopt the Law sent down by Allah through His Messenger.
28This is the aim of Jihad with the Jews and the Christians and it is not to force them to become Muslims and adopt the `Islamic Way of Life.' They should be forced to pay Jizyah in order to put an end to their independence and supremacy so that they should not remain rulers and sovereigns in the land. These powers should be wrested from them by the followers of the true Faith, who should assume the sovereignty and lead others towards the Right Way, while they should become their subjects and pay jizyah. jizyah is paid by those non-Muslims who live as Zimmis (proteges) in an Islamic State, in exchange for the security and protection granted to them by it. This is also symbolical of the fact that they themselves agree to live in it as its subjects. This is the significance of "..... they Pay jizyah with their own hands," that is, "with full consent so that they willingly become the subjects of the Believers, who perform the duty of the vicegerents of Allah on the earth. "At first this Command applied only to the Jews and the Christians. Then the Holy Prophet himself extended it to the Zoroastrians also. After his death, his Companions unanimously applied this rule to all the non-Muslim nations outside Arabia.This is jizyah " of which the Muslims have been feeling apologetic during the last two centuries of their degeneration and there are still some people who continue to apologize for it. But the Way of Allah is straight and clear and does not stand in need of any apology to the rebels against Allah. Instead of offering apologies on behalf of Islam for the measure that guarantees security of life, property and faith to those who choose to live under its protection, the Muslims should feel proud of such a humane law as that of jizyah. For it is obvious that the maximum freedom that can be allowed to those who do not adopt the Way of Allah but choose to tread the ways of error is that they should be tolerated to lead the life they like. That is why the Islamic State offers them protection, IF THEY agree to live as its Zimmis by paying jizyah, but it cannot allow that they should remain supreme rulers in any place and establish wrong ways and impose them on others. As this state of things inevitably produces chaos and disorder, it is the duty of the true Muslims to exert their utmost to bring to an end their wicked rule and bring them under a righteous order.As regards the question, "What do the non-Muslims get in return for Jizyah " it may suffice to say that it is the price of the freedom which the Islamic State allows them in following their erroneous ways, while living in the jurisdiction of Islam and enjoying its protection. The money thus collected is spent in maintaining the righteous administration that gives them the freedom and protects their rights. This also serves as a yearly reminder to them that they have been deprived of the honor of paying Zakat in the Way of Allah, and forced to pay jizyah instead as a price of following the ways of error. (source)
For the continued rebuttal to Zaatari and Samatar check out Part 2
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