Take a guess what religion 99% these terrorist organizations belong to!
http://www.start.umd.edu/start/data_collections/tops/terrorist_organizations_by_ideology.asp?id=1
Islamic Dawah, Pisses off Buddhists!
Go to the youtube comment section to check out the Buddhists reaction to these junk videos.
Most Buddhists have many criticisms of Islam, but over all as you would expect a peace-loving-hippie Buddhist to be, they seek peace, love, happiness and the end of suffering, with there Muslim friends aswell. (1,2).
Mind you the Buddhists in Thailand, Burma and Sri Lanka are aware that Islam has wiped out all the previous Buddhist nations, and so they are in a hurry to pressure minority Muslim populations to leave their last countries. These Buddhists certainly don't believe in pacifism, like your stereotypical Buddhist.
The Irony: Allah confirms the accusations leveled at Mohammed by the Pagans
Mohammed claims he cannot alter his life in any substantial way due to him being having the status of messenger of Allah:
However while Mohammed had denied possessing divine knowledge that produces power to bring wealth, goodness and avoid calamity, he is also confirming he in fact does possess this divine knowledge given to him by Allah!
Mohammed does have substantial the power and knowledge to change his life when Allah reveals and wills this, which is exactly what the Pagans had thought of Mohammed in the first place, Allah informed Mohammed of coming disaster or productivity so that Mohammed could avoid harm and profit from favour. So far from Allah refuting the pagans, he ends up confirming the pagans!
Other examples of Mohammed knowing in advance and therefore taking the right actions (given to him by Allah) to increase his own favor and avoid his own pain is given by a Sheikh:
Mohammed may have negated to the pagans he had any divine knowledge necessary to accumulate wealth or goodness (except by Allah's will), but then here we have a perfect example of the Quran and Sunnah confirming the pagans, as it turns out all of the booty belongs to Allah and his Messenger!
I can think of three ways a Muslim may attempt to reconcile such a contradiction.
While this maybe true (although plenty of evidence to the contrary, forgetting that for now), the pagans didn't ask Mohammed especially about his carnal intention behind possessing the power to change his life, but rather whether his Lord informed him. It's clear that anyone with their right mind would benefit themselves if they had such power, even according to the answer given in the Quran.
However this would only confirm the pagan argument: "Does not your Lord inform you?". Therefore God informs Mohammed so that he can add benefit and avoid harm in his life, which confirms exactly what the pagans said of him!
What is even more disturbing is that Mohammed clearly meets one of the criterion to be the True God, offered up by the Quran:
Some Muslims may argue that Mohammed could not have divine power over gaining benefit and avoiding harm without Allah and thus he needed Allah's assistance where as Allah had no assistance. But the pagans had the exact same concept about their false deities. The false pagan deities were completely dependent on Allah to have power over benefit and harm, they believed Allah was the source of all the pagan divinities and their powers, so merely saying that because Allah gave Mohammed divine power and knowledge, does not negate the fact that Mohammed now shares in a portion of this divine power to benefit his own life, which is the exact specification used to distinguish between true deity and false deity!
Say: 'I do not have the power to acquire benefits or to avert harm from myself, except by the Will of Allah. Had I possessed knowledge of the unseen, I would have availed myself of much that is good, and no harm would have touched me. But I am only a warner and a bearer of glad tidings for a nation who believe. 7:188 QaribullahIt is said the reason Allah revealed this verse is:
(Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt…) [7:188]. Said al-Kalbi: “The people of Mecca said: ‘O Muhammad, does not your Lord inform you about lower prices before they go up, and thus you buy and make profit? And does He not inform you about the land which is about to suffer drought and, thus, you travel to a land which is more fertile?’ And so Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse”. Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-WahidiMohammed therefore according to the Pagans used Allah's knowledge to selfishly improve his lifestyle, but he replies in his response to the Meccans (or for Muslims: Allah commands Mohammed to respond) by negating such foolishness:
Say: 'I do not have the power to acquire benefits or to avert harm from myself, except by the Will of Allah. Had I possessed knowledge of the unseen, I would have availed myself of much that is good, and no harm would have touched me. But I am only a warner and a bearer of glad tidings for a nation who believe. 7:188 QaribullahHere's how another translation puts it:
Say, "I hold not for myself [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe." 7:188 Sahih IntlThe tafsirs confirm this point:
That is, "I cannot tell you the exact time of Resurrection because I myself do not know anything about the unseen. Had I possessed any knowledge of the future, I would not have suffered any harm because I would have avoided it and achieved many benefits because of my fore knowledge. Therefore it is very foolish on your part to ask me about it merely to test my Prophethood." Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
Say: ‘I have no power to bring benefit, to attract it to, myself, or hurt, to repel it, except as God wills. Had I knowledge of the Unseen — that which is hidden from me, I would have acquired much good, and adversity, in the way of impoverishment and otherwise, would not touch me, since I would take precautions against such [adversity] by avoiding what is harmful. I am but a warner, to disbelievers, of the Fire, and a bearer of good tidings, of Paradise, to a people who believe’. Al-Jalalayn
(Say) O Muhammad, to the people of Mecca: (For myself I have no power to benefit) to bring benefit, (nor power to hurt) to drive away harm, (save that which Allah willeth) to do with me of benefit or harm. (Had I knowledge of the Unseen) benefit and harm, (I should have abundance of wealth) of benefit, (and adversity) harm (would not touch me) it is also said that this means: if I knew when punishment would descend upon you, I would do good in abundance out of gratitude and no grief or sadness for you would touch me because of it; it is also said that this means: If I knew when I was to die, I would do good and perform righteous works in abundance and hardship would not touch me; it is also said that this means: If I knew the timing of droughts, lack of harvest and of rises in prices, I would amass good in abundance and hardship would not touch me. (I am but a warner) of the Fire, (and a bearer of good tidings) of Paradise (unto folk who believe) in Paradise and hell. Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
Allah commanded His Prophet to entrust all matters to Him and to inform, about himself, that he does not know the unseen future, but he knows of it only what Allah informs him. Allah said in another Ayah,((He Alone is) the All-Knower of the Ghayb (Unseen), and He reveals to none His Ghayb.) ﴿72:26﴾ Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said that, (If I had the knowledge of the Ghayb (Unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth.) refers to money. In another narration, Ibn `Abbas commented, "I would have knowledge of how much profit I would make with what I buy, and I would always sell what I would make profit from, ("and no evil should have touched me.'') and poverty would never touch me.'' Ibn Jarir said, "And others said, `This means that if I know the Unseen then I would prepare for the years of famine during the prosperous years, and in the time of high cost, I would have prepared for it.''' `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam also commented on this Ayah; ("and no evil should have touched me. ''), "I would have avoided and saved myself from any type of harm before it comes.'' Allah then stated that the Prophet is a warner and bearer of good news. He warns against the torment and brings good news of Paradise for the believers - Ibn KathirIt is therefore completely affirmed that Mohammed denies having possessed such knowledge to affect his life in such a manner. Mohammed then agrees with the premise in the pagan argument, that he would use such knowledge to improve his own life, but then retaliates by claiming: why hasn't that come to pass? Therefore he does not possess such knowledge or power:
- If Mohammed possessed the divine power/knowledge to improve his life he would have done it
- Mohammed did not do it
- Therefore he did not possess the divine power and knowledge
However while Mohammed had denied possessing divine knowledge that produces power to bring wealth, goodness and avoid calamity, he is also confirming he in fact does possess this divine knowledge given to him by Allah!
Say: 'I do not have the power to acquire benefits or to avert harm from myself, except by the Will of Allah. Had I possessed knowledge of the unseen, I would have availed myself of much that is good, and no harm would have touched me. But I am only a warner and a bearer of glad tidings for a nation who believe. 7:188 Qaribullah
Say, "I hold not for myself [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe." 7:188 Sahih Intl
And else where:
He knows the unseen and He does not allow anyone to know His secrets except those of His Messengers whom He chooses. Except to him whom He chooses as an apostle; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him, (Messenger) so that He would know that the Messengers have conveyed the message of their Lord. He encompasses all that is with them and He keeps a precise account of all things". 72:26-28 Muhammad Sarwar
Allah will not leave the believers in the condition in which you are till He separates the wicked from the good, nor will Allah let you know the unseen. But Allah chooses of His (Prophetic) Messengers whom He wishes, (to receive knowledge thereof). So believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messengers, and if you believe and ward off (evil), then yours will be a vast reward. 3:179So while Mohammed attempts to negate the argument that his Lord informed him of thing in advance that may change the course of his life in a good way, he clearly ends up affirming it!
Mohammed does have substantial the power and knowledge to change his life when Allah reveals and wills this, which is exactly what the Pagans had thought of Mohammed in the first place, Allah informed Mohammed of coming disaster or productivity so that Mohammed could avoid harm and profit from favour. So far from Allah refuting the pagans, he ends up confirming the pagans!
Other examples of Mohammed knowing in advance and therefore taking the right actions (given to him by Allah) to increase his own favor and avoid his own pain is given by a Sheikh:
If those people perceive that Allah will not give victory to his Laws and His religion, and that Allah has written defeat to be upon the Muslims forever, and that there is no breaking out of that, then why did Allah send down the Book? Why did He send down the Prophets? Why did he decree the Religion? Why did he make Islam more powerful and above all other religions? Why did he abrogate all other teachings and methods, all other religions and ways of life with the bringing of Islam if He never meant to give it victory?
That is why Allah says:
“If anyone thinks that Allah will not help Muhammad in this world and the hearafter, let them stretch out a rope to the ceiling and cut themselves off, then let them see whether their plan will remove that which enrages them.” [Al-Hajj: 15]
In other words, the scholars have explained this verse that whomever thinks that Allah will not give victory to Muhammad in this life and in the hereafter, then let them hang themselves from their ceilings if that is frustrating them. For sure Allah is going to give victory to His Prophet for sure, as He has said:
“We surely will give aid to our Prophets and those who believed in this world and on the day when the witnesses will stand forth. The Day when the oppressors’ excuses will be of no benefit to them, to them is the curse, and to them is the worst of dwellings.” [Ghaafir: 51-52]
Allah also says:
“And We have sent down Our words to Our slaves that We have sent, they are surely to be aided, and that Our soldiers are surely to be victorious.” [Assaafaat: 171-173]
And Allah also says:
“Those who oppose Allah and His Prophets, they will be in disgrace. Allah has written My Prophets and I will be victorious.” [Al-Mujaadalah: 20-21]
So, if the causes of victory have been achieved, then Allah will definitely give victory to those who have achieved it, but if they are defeated, they are only defeated due to them, failing to achieve the causes of victory.
This nation learns and is taught by what Allah decrees upon it, and the Prophet has taught us from his Sunnah how he aids his Lord and his Lord aids him.
Allah has said:
“Oh you who believe, if you give aid to Allah, Allah will aid you and strengthen your foothold.” [Muhammad: 7]
He also said:
“If Allah was to give you aid, there will be no victor over you, but if He was to not, then who will ever give you aid after Him? On Allah let the believers rely.” [Aal-Imraan:160]
Allah does that which He wishes to do, and He has written down destiny and what He decrees before He created the heaves and the earth by 50,000 years. Therefore, whatever happens on this planet is written with Him. Allah knows and you know not. Sheikh Abdus-Salaam ZoudTherefore the co-partnership of Allah and Mohammed made it completely inevitable Mohammed was going to be successful and victorious in this life and the here after, therefore the benefit to Mohammed in both
Mohammed may have negated to the pagans he had any divine knowledge necessary to accumulate wealth or goodness (except by Allah's will), but then here we have a perfect example of the Quran and Sunnah confirming the pagans, as it turns out all of the booty belongs to Allah and his Messenger!
I can think of three ways a Muslim may attempt to reconcile such a contradiction.
- Objection 1
Mohammed did not receive divine knowledge and power to change his life when he himself desired this knowledge, but only when God decided to reveal to the apostle the power and knowledge to avoid harm and gain benefit. The Meccans were objecting to the fact that Mohammed had at his disposal, or at his whim, the power to gain favor and avoid pain, but Mohammed was commanded to say he is self reliant only on when God reveals it.
- Objection 2
Perhaps then to reconcile this contradiction we could say Mohammed by himself (without Allah) does not possess knowledge of the unseen, but with Allah he does in fact possess some knowledge of the unseen.
- Objection 3
Mohammed only had some divine knowledge revealed to him by Allah, but not all of Allah's unseen divine knowledge. The pagans are therefore expecting Mohammed to have power over his life, while the Quran is simply negating Mohammed has all knowledge or power except what Allah gives him. The idea here is Mohammed is saying "I only know what Allah reveals to me, in that sense I can avoid harm and gain benefit, but in the specific manner you raise I do not have that power or knowledge since Allah hasn't revealed it to me". Therefore instead of having a general application, the Quran is being precise and specific to these specific objections raised by the pagan, and then giving a general application that Mohammed couldn't know anything except from his Lord.
There are several problems with this explanation. Firstly the Quran no where specifies the exact objections raised against Mohammed, and it rather gives a generic application in it's response that is rather ambigious. Further more, while Mohammed maybe negating knowledge of the specific events raised by the pagans, it is clear however Allah and Mohammed are seemingly wrong since they both possess wealth from booty by Allah's direct will.
Further more the interpretation of this verse cannot be precisely clear that Mohammed is indeed denying negation of these specific events:
In the first sentence Allah says "'I do not have the power to acquire benefits or to avert harm from myself, except by the Will of Allah."
Here is a clear affirmation that Mohammed does have the power to gain benefits and avoid harm because of Allah's will.
So does this negate the charges? No.
Secondly, the next sentence says: "Had I possessed knowledge of the unseen, I would have availed myself of much that is good, and no harm would have touched me."
Here Mohammed is seemingly negating to possess any and all knowledge of the unseen in the statement: "Had I possessed knowledge of the unseen" which is generic and all inclusive. However rather than stating this is a contradiction from the verse sentence, lets put it together with the first sentence, it must comport with "I do not have the power to acquire benefits or to avert harm from myself", and likewise "I am merely a warner with glad tidings", must comport to the idea that Mohammed by himself has no power to change his destiny through supernatural knowledge but was merely presenting a message. Therefore the only way to resolve these seemingly conflicting passage is to assert all three sentences are compatible with the first sentence which negates an ordinary human Mohammed possessing such capabilities. However with the will of Allah on his side, Mohammed does possess such knowledge, and thus again only confirms the pagans, that Allah specifically informs Mohammed of future events.
Finally
What is even more disturbing is that Mohammed clearly meets one of the criterion to be the True God, offered up by the Quran:
And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 ShakirHowever while the pagan gods do not control any benefit or harm for themselves, it is clear that Mohammed does indeed have this power given to him by Allah!
Say: 'I do not have the power to acquire benefits or to avert harm from myself, except by the Will of Allah. Had I possessed knowledge of the unseen, I would have availed myself of much that is good, and no harm would have touched me. But I am only a warner and a bearer of glad tidings for a nation who believe. 7:188 QaribullahThus Mohammed with the power given to him by Allah was able to do the very things the false pagan gods could not do!
Some Muslims may argue that Mohammed could not have divine power over gaining benefit and avoiding harm without Allah and thus he needed Allah's assistance where as Allah had no assistance. But the pagans had the exact same concept about their false deities. The false pagan deities were completely dependent on Allah to have power over benefit and harm, they believed Allah was the source of all the pagan divinities and their powers, so merely saying that because Allah gave Mohammed divine power and knowledge, does not negate the fact that Mohammed now shares in a portion of this divine power to benefit his own life, which is the exact specification used to distinguish between true deity and false deity!
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Another one bites the DUST: CT West Coast Exposed Again
(08:27
AM) Alert: This is a G rated room intended for a
General Audience including minors.
Offensive language is not permitted.
(08:27 AM)
Alert: This is a place for people to debate the pros and cons of Islam,
Christianity and Judaism.
(08:27 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: this is on him alone
Dk-man7: AM
HERE
Dk-man7: AM
HERE
(08:27 AM)
JaiHabor: wb dk
(08:28 AM)
Thranduil432: is Jax's 5 mins up yet?
(08:28 AM)
FlipFlops1: ok i wont blme his prents
(08:28 AM)
Alert: You have invited CHRISTTHEWAY24
Dk-man7: WHERE
IS SNIPER 2
(08:28 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: thran that 5 min red dot is to low
(08:28 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: did u see his words?
(08:28 AM)
richdrummer: right behind u
(08:28 AM)
FlipFlops1: no thrand
(08:28 AM)
FlipFlops1: give him 50 mins
(08:29 AM)
Thranduil432: yeah, he was pretty bad
(08:29 AM)
FlipFlops1: or 50 years
(08:29 AM)
FlipFlops1: lol
(08:29 AM)
richdrummer: ct ,, can u forgive ,,u must realize that any ignorance aimed at
the son or god ,,has no bearing on them or the eturnal love we all desire
(08:29 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: yes i can forgive , but punishment also needs to happen
(08:30 AM) ***
ConstantineTheGreat has left the room ***
(08:30 AM)
FlipFlops1: jaxal would have been stoned for this
(08:30 AM)
FlipFlops1: if he had insulted prophet muhamaed
Dk-man7: CT.
support our brothers and sisters in Islam
Dk-man7: not
the pagan xtianity
(08:31 AM)
JaiHabor: flipflips1, what is the penalty for insulting allah?
(08:32 AM)
FlipFlops1: death
(08:32 AM)
Thranduil432: Dr, should we give Jax another chance?
(08:32 AM)
JaiHabor: flipflops1**
(08:32 AM)
FlipFlops1: with an axe
(08:32 AM)
JaiHabor: according to what?
(08:32 AM)
FlipFlops1: to me lol
(08:32 AM)
FlipFlops1: sheesh
(08:33 AM)
JaiHabor: and are you a sheikh or something?
(08:33 AM)
FlipFlops1: insulting God is even worse
(08:33 AM)
JaiHabor: that isn't a worse punishment though, death is death.
(08:33 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: hi thran, ok
(08:34 AM) ***
thinker000 has joined the room ***
(08:34 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: thakn you for the undot
(08:34 AM) ***
thinker000 has left the room ***
(08:34 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: so any particular topics going on in this room?
(08:35 AM)
Thranduil432: well, as usual the muslims are attacking the deity of Jesus
(08:35 AM)
JaiHabor: I'm curious how Muslims determine punishments for their so-called
offences
(08:35 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: 'diety' of jesus... in inverted commas
(08:35 AM)
JaiHabor: it seems quite arbitrarily to me
(08:35 AM) ***
aadam25_Quba has joined the room ***
(08:35 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: how do you know he was a diety
(08:35 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: thranduil?
(08:36 AM)
Thranduil432: why do you spell deity the wrong way
(08:36 AM) ***
aadam25_Quba has left the room ***
(08:36 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: as long as you get what i say, spellings do not matter
(08:36 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Jesus is not deity , everything points to him as being a non-deity
(08:36 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: true ct
(08:36 AM)
Thranduil432: he is deity because the NT and OT say so
(08:36 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: ahhhhhh
(08:36 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: because a BOOK says soo
(08:36 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: lol
(08:37 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: how intelligent
(08:37 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Thran , actually u are wrong......the Book doesnt even say so
Dk-man7: CT
come to the mic and present your case
(08:37 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: you appeal to a book and do Eisegetical gymnastics
(08:37 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: he has no case to present
Dk-man7: Go
ahead CT
(08:37 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: excepct pasages from a BOOK
(08:37 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: lol
Dk-man7: don't
be afraid
(08:37 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: i ahve a book that says tinker bells is real
(08:37 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: thranduil makes the claim of jesus deity , yet provides nothing
(08:38 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: and the verses he provides are easily refuted
(08:38 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: do you think i can cohessively present the case that tinker bell
was REAL?
(08:38 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: contextually
Dk-man7: CT
come to mic
(08:38 AM)
JaiHabor: CT what about Isaiah 9:6 ?
(08:38 AM)
FlipFlops1: I am glad you dont worship jesus
(08:38 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: who is NOT glad that they do NOT worhship a false god?
(08:38 AM)
JaiHabor: as for prophecies in the OT about the Messiah
(08:38 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: jesus is messiah , but he is not God
(08:39 AM)
JaiHabor: yes.. but that passage says He will be titled mighty God
(08:39 AM)
JaiHabor: that the Messiah will be
(08:39 AM)
JaiHabor: in my understanding of the passage
Dk-man7: (08:38 AM) CT_wESt CoaSt: jesus
is messiah , but he is not God<< what proof do you have
(08:40 AM)
FlipFlops1: jesus saidd worship the father
Dk-man7: where
is your proof Jesus is the Messiah
Dk-man7: what
is your proof the Messiah is not divine
Dk-man7: ?
(08:40 AM)
JaiHabor: Jesus also said if we search the OT we find Him .. 
(08:40 AM)
JaiHabor: (( John 5:39-40 ))
(08:41 AM)
JaiHabor: g l or i o u s
(08:42 AM)
JaiHabor: amazing... did any other prophet make that claim?
(08:42 AM) ***
LoveLifer123 has joined the room ***
(08:42 AM)
JaiHabor: did Isaiah ever say, study the torah and you will find me?
(08:42 AM)
LoveLifer123: hi
(08:42 AM)
JaiHabor: did Jeremiah claim if we study the torah we will come to know him?
Dk-man7: anyone
who says Messiah Ben David is *not* divine, will need to explain how the
Messiah is eternal
(08:42 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: jesus being profesied in the OT doesnt meen he is God lol
(08:42 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: unreal
(08:42 AM)
JaiHabor: God did.. Jesus did ..
Dk-man7: CT
stop wasting time and answer
Dk-man7: What
is your proof Jesus is the Messiah
(08:42 AM)
JaiHabor: I mention Isaiah 9:6 "he will be titled ... mighty God"
Dk-man7: What
is the Messiah?
Dk-man7: Then
show us proof the Messiah was never thought of as divine
Dk-man7: CT ON
THE RUN
(08:45 AM)
JaiHabor: so I was reading Michael Rydelnik's book
(08:45 AM)
JaiHabor: messianic hope: is the hebrew bible really messianic
(08:45 AM)
JaiHabor: (something like that)
(08:45 AM)
JaiHabor: and I'm reading the section on Isaiah 7-11
(08:45 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: if i was a whore during a time where adultry was punished by
stoning, i would also claim that my pregnant belly was the result of god ( as
opposed to a client impregnating me ) and that my child would be the son of god
(08:45 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: all to escape the horrible death by stoning
(08:45 AM)
LoveLifer123: Just was in the Answering Christianity room and got dotted for
saying no 'plurality of majesty' existed when Genesis was written
(08:45 AM)
JaiHabor: jaxal must be Jewish
(08:46 AM) JaiHabor:
smh
(08:46 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: is it not POSSIBLE, that mary was mayube not so pure?
(08:46 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: isia 9 6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is
given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God (EL Gibor), The everlasting Father, The Prince
of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish
it with justice and righteousness from hence forth even forever. The zeal of
the Lord of hosts will perform this.
(Isaiah 9:6-7)"
Dk-man7: LoverLifer,
don't you know? facts are a dottable offense
(08:46 AM)
JaiHabor: yes CT
(08:46 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: LOL DK
(08:46 AM)
JaiHabor: exactly
(08:46 AM)
LoveLifer123: lol DK yeah
(08:46 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Psalm 82:6 "I said,
'You are "gods" (Elohim; plural to El); you are all sons of the Most
High.' "
(08:46 AM)
JaiHabor: el gibor .. mighty god
(08:47 AM)
JaiHabor: elohim is the plural of eloah, elim is the plural of el
(08:47 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: jesus even points to the jews
(08:47 AM)
JaiHabor: but ok .. whats the point
(08:47 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: and tells them scripture says you are GODS
(08:47 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: gods*
Dk-man7: lmao
Dk-man7: really
that's his answer?
Dk-man7: CT
honestly you are more retarded than a Muslim
(08:47 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: scripture refers to people as gods
(08:47 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: ct so u believe now that Jesus as "a son of God" is on
the same level with prophets and us?
Dk-man7: That's
like a Muslim quoting "You are like God unto Pharaoah" referring to
Moses
Dk-man7: CT
honestly come up with some better arguments
(08:48 AM)
LoveLifer123: HI ct. 'god' or 'gods' can also refer to 'ruler' or 'righteous
ones'
Dk-man7: That's
just embarrasing
(08:48 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: it doesnt make him God almighty himself is the point
(08:48 AM)
JaiHabor: CT, look at Isaiah 10:21
Dk-man7: el
gibbor is the very same term used of YHVH in the next chapter 10:21
(08:49 AM)
JaiHabor: the same phrasing is used for Yahweh
Dk-man7: CT u
are a time waster
(08:49 AM)
JaiHabor: are we going to argue Yahweh is not the mighty God?
(08:49 AM)
LoveLifer123: elohim can refer to other gods
(08:49 AM)
JaiHabor: the divine council deals with psalm 82
(08:49 AM)
JaiHabor: semitic language scholar
Dk-man7: CT
still running from the question: WHAT IS THE MESSIAH, prove that JESUS IS THE
MESSIAH. PROVE THE MESSIAH IS NOT DIVINE
Dk-man7: GO
AHEAD SNAKE
(08:50 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Elijah. This name is short
for EliJehovah or "Eli Yahweh".
Eli means my GOD, and Yahweh is the name and title of GOD Almighty in
the Bible. Does "Eli Yahweh"
or Elijah mean that the person is Jehovah Himself?
(08:51 AM)
JaiHabor: CT .. wow
(08:51 AM)
JaiHabor: that is anthony buzzard style of argument
Dk-man7: CT,
you can't be that clueless
(08:51 AM)
JaiHabor: eli yahu = my god is yahweh ..
Dk-man7: CT -
Elijah is a theophoric noun
Dk-man7: CT
none of the names mentioned in ISaiah 9:6 are abbreviated names of prophets
describing the characteristics of God
Dk-man7: CT the
names in Isaiah 9:6 are describing the characteristics of the child
Dk-man7: read
the verse again
(08:52 AM)
JaiHabor: even brother moshe ben maimon applies Isaiah 9:6 to the messiah
son of david
Dk-man7: For
unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be
UPON HIS SHOULDER; and HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty
God (EL Gibor), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of
HIS government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and
upon HIS KINGDOM, to order it, and to establish it with justice and righteousness
from hence forth even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform
this. (Isaiah 9:6-7)"
(08:54 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: OT scripture verses shows people are called gods
Dk-man7: anyway
this dude is brain dead to continue
(08:54 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: but they are not the almighty God
Dk-man7: ok the
mighty God is not Almighty God
Dk-man7: we
understand
Dk-man7: LOL
(08:55 AM)
FlipFlops1: hmm
Dk-man7: a
title used exclusively of Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible is not Almighty God
Dk-man7: LOLLLL
(08:55 AM)
FlipFlops1: i need to read OT
(08:55 AM)
JaiHabor: yes, check into it
Dk-man7: Well
it was fun smoking CT
Dk-man7: any
other Muslims, stepping up ?
(08:56 AM)
FlipFlops1: if people are called Gods
(08:56 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: dk man , i dont take u serious
(08:56 AM)
JaiHabor: Flip are you a muslima?
(08:56 AM)
FlipFlops1: doesnt mean they are God
almighty
(08:56 AM)
FlipFlops1: not really
(08:56 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: yes , thats my point flip
(08:56 AM)
FlipFlops1: im seeking truth
Dk-man7: Jesus
is not called *a god*. As we just demonstrated
(08:56 AM)
JaiHabor: I see
Dk-man7: Stop
wasting our time
(08:57 AM)
JaiHabor: so you are in similar positions
(08:57 AM)
LoveLifer123: yes but el gibbor isn't used the way elohim is used for 'gods' or
rulers
(08:57 AM)
FlipFlops1: well pose your proof
(08:57 AM)
FlipFlops1: poste
(08:57 AM)
LoveLifer123: el gibbor is used for the almighty
(08:58 AM)
JaiHabor: or .. the mighty
Dk-man7: no
lovelifer
(08:58 AM)
LoveLifer123: yes jail
(08:58 AM)
LoveLifer123: mighty
Dk-man7: El
Gibbor is referring to the false gods in Psalms 82
Dk-man7: just
ask CTWESTCOAST lol
Dk-man7: sakdghl;adsgh;alsdkhas
Dk-man7: dsagadshgsadk;ghdals;
(08:59 AM)
JaiHabor: interestingly the name Gabriel is compiled of the same words El
Gibor is ..
(08:59 AM)
LoveLifer123: oh ok dk i believe it isn;t ALWAYS used to refer to 'the' mighty
God
(08:59 AM)
FlipFlops1: so Gabriel is God almigzhty?
(08:59 AM)
FlipFlops1: almighty
(09:00 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: gabriel... the almight...
(09:00 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: oh jesus...
(09:00 AM) JaXaL
Rewritten: lol
(09:00 AM)
JaiHabor: Gabriel can be broken down into a few different meanings, man of
God or God is mighty . . .
(09:00 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: lmaoooo
Dk-man7: well
Jibreel is Almighty Holy Spirit in the Quran where he breathes into Mary's
vagina and creates a child.
(09:00 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: now gabriel is ALMIGHTY GOD
(09:00 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: sheesh , christians strecth
(09:01 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: lol
(09:01 AM)
JaiHabor: didn't say that
(09:01 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: stretch*
(09:01 AM)
JaiHabor: but ok
Dk-man7: as for
the Bible , Jibreel is just a messenger
(09:01 AM)
FlipFlops1: the verse u sent says he will be called mighty God
(09:02 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: "El Gibor" and "Gabriel" are same thing. They
both mean "Strong God". "Gabriel" is an angel's name in the
Bible
(09:02 AM)
FlipFlops1: if people call him that doesnt mean he is God almighty
(09:02 AM)
JaiHabor: so is Jesus the mighty God?
Dk-man7: but CT
said Jesus was not God
(09:02 AM)
FlipFlops1: people call him that
Dk-man7: whoops
(09:02 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: The word "Gibor" in Isaiah 9:6 and the word
"Gibor" of Gabriel have exactly the same root, and they are both the
same word. The word itself can also be
translated as "Man of God".
Dk-man7: lol
(09:02 AM)
FlipFlops1: people saay a lot
(09:02 AM)
FlipFlops1: lol
(09:02 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Jesus is Not God almighty
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: i agree
Dk-man7: Notice
he changes his statement now
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: but jesus even quotes the OT to those Jews
Dk-man7: First
he said Jesus is not God
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: and says what DK?
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: are we not called gods 
Dk-man7: now he
says Jesus is not God Almighty
Dk-man7: Since
he had to admit he's a polytheist
Dk-man7: CT,
how many Gods do you believe in ?
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: the JEWS tried to claim he was saying he is ALMIGHTY GOD
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: but jesus corrects them and says nope
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: but are we not called gods
(09:03 AM)
LoveLifer123: dk i'm looking for el gibbor in psalm 82 for false gods can u post
it?
(09:03 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt:
Dk-man7: CT, is
the Messiah , Mighty God ?
Dk-man7: CT you
are on slippery slope
(09:04 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: this is why jesus quotes the OT to say hey guys stop accusing me
of being ALMIGHTY GOD
(09:04 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: i am not
Dk-man7: CT, is
the Messiah, Mighty God ?
(09:04 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: its very obvious the context
Dk-man7: CT,
running
(09:04 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: dk on ignore
Dk-man7: CT so
you believe in two gods ?
Dk-man7: one
almighty God, and another mighty god?
Dk-man7: is
that correct?
Dk-man7: LOL
(09:05 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: but i will say are we not gods
(09:05 AM)
LoveLifer123: ct he meant to say: if they who were just mean were dignified
enough to be called 'gods' or rulers, how much more should He be called God who
is by nature
(09:05 AM)
LoveLifer123: men
(09:05 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: this was jesus response to those jews
Dk-man7: Loveliver,
reread my statement about CT , I Was taking the piss.
(09:05 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: "EL" can also mean "Judge". So "El Gibor" can also be
translated as "Strong Judge"
(09:06 AM) LoveLifer123:
yeah dk just trying to fing where el gibbor refers to false gods
Dk-man7: Lovelifer
Dk-man7: Do you
know what satire is
(09:06 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: ct, actually when Jesus said "ye are gods" in the
context he claims to have more right to be called God since he is the Son set
appart and sent into the world
Dk-man7: reread
the statement
(09:06 AM)
LoveLifer123: oh you were joking? lol
(09:06 AM)
LoveLifer123: sirry dk
(09:06 AM)
LoveLifer123: sorry
(09:06 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Hezekiah is called "the mighty God" because this name is
a sign that foretells God's defense of Jerusalem through the miraculous sudden
mass death of Sennacherib's army
Dk-man7: now CT
is copying from Jews for Judaism
(09:07 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: wrong chill , he is telling them....listen guys stop telling me i
am almighty GOD
(09:07 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: he is saying me and you are called gods
(09:07 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: so are they almighty God chill?
(09:07 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: notice how the context is chill
(09:07 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: ct, thats ur interpretation, Jesus explained his point by claiming
that he has the right to be called God as the Son sent into the world
(09:07 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: they first claim he is ALIGHTY GOD
(09:08 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: his response is what ?
(09:08 AM)
LoveLifer123: yes exactly dr chilosophy that is what Jesus was saying, that He
haseven more rigth to be called God
(09:08 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: the very next verse shows that
(09:08 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: wrong lifer
(09:08 AM)
LoveLifer123: CT he would have denied it altogether if he wasn;t
(09:08 AM)
LoveLifer123: henever did
Dk-man7: Jai
are you there?
Dk-man7: I just
googled CT's quote
(09:08 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: ct why else would Jesus say afterwards that he is the Son set
appart and sent into the world?
(09:08 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: he did deny it lifer.........this is why he respned with the OT
QUOTE
Dk-man7: It's a
direct quotation from JEWS FOR JUDAISM
(09:09 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: in verse 34
(09:09 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: why would he say that right after it?
Dk-man7: Hezekiah
is called "the mighty God" because this name is a sign that foretells
God's defense of Jerusalem through the miraculous sudden mass death of
Sennacherib's army
(09:09 AM)
LoveLifer123: they all believed he was claiming to be God and he did not deny it
(09:09 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Context shows
Dk-man7: _http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/who_is_the_child_in_isaiah_9_5_6/
(09:09 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: wrong , the JEWS MADE THE CLAIM
(09:09 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: jesus corrected them
(09:09 AM)
LoveLifer123: in fact He died because He claimed to be the 'Son' of God
(09:09 AM)
LoveLifer123: which they understood to mean he was claiming divinity
(09:10 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: wrong do u realize LIFER that you and chrstendom are actually
beliving JESUS is GOD based on what they accused him of???
(09:10 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: unreal
(09:10 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: and this is why Jesus mentioned the OT verse "are we not
gods"
Dk-man7: CT who
confesses Jesus is the *Messiah* just went to a counter-missionary website to
prove Jesus isn't the Messiah and Mighty God spoken of by the prophet Messiah
Dk-man7: CT you
gotta stop handing yourself
Dk-man7: It's
shameful
(09:11 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: so lifer you sir are ACTUALLY in error like those JEWS
Dk-man7: And
embarrassing
(09:11 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: who claimed he is ALMIGHTY GOD
(09:11 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: ct, u can interpretate it ur way, i dont deny that, but there is
room for another interpretation supported by the context, which is that Jesus
claimed to have the right to be called God since he is the Son of God who was
set appart and sent into the world
(09:11 AM)
LoveLifer123: I thinkJesus Christ made it clear He was God, CT and so did the
apostle John in John 1 and Peter in Acts 3:15
(09:11 AM)
LoveLifer123: and in many other places
(09:12 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: LIFER so basically because the jews made a false claim of jesus
"CLAIMING TO BE GOD" you believe he is GOD?
(09:12 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: this is basically what u are
(09:12 AM)
LoveLifer123: CT who would ever say 'I AM the Resurrection"? if they
weren;t God
(09:12 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: study the context
(09:13 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: eveyrthing Jesus said was based on doing GODS will
(09:13 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: not because he was GOD
(09:13 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: get real
(09:13 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: the context is clear
(09:14 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: Jesus even states this
(09:14 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: all throughout scripture
(09:14 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: yet Christians want to do eisegetical gymnastics
(09:14 AM)
LoveLifer123: yes, because of His great humility and submission in His humanity
which was always ONE AND UNITED PERFECTLY with the Father in the Godhead
(09:14 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: to create a false doctrine
(09:14 AM) Dr
Chillosophy: so ct, there would have been absolutely no reason for Jesus to say
after it that he is the Son, set appart by God and sent into the world.. if ur
interpretation is right
(09:14 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: of course they are UNITED IN PURPOSE LIFER
(09:14 AM) CT_wESt
CoaSt: this doesnt meen JESUS IS GOD
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